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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:24 pm 
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I would like to thank the contributors to this site for the great advice I have received since getting a TI earlier this summer. It has lhelped out a lot in our use and enjoyment of the boat.

I now have one additional question. After having the wind die on us and being forced to pedal a large distance on a very hot day, we are considering getting an Evolve 2 motor. Our dealer suggests one which goes into one of the mirage drives. While this sounds convenient we are reluctant to give up one of the drives when we do not need the motor. Does it make any sense to carry the motor and then only install it when we need it? I gather that the alternative of getting a rudder mount is now not an option since we have the new up/down rudder and the current rudder mount only works on the twist-and-stow version. Any chance that a rudder mount for the up/down version will become available.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Hi rhyolken

I'm an AI owner yet I've tried to get solutions from the Torqeedo ppl including their US office, the local sales manager for Western Canada and even my own dealer here:

I am assuming that you also have a GPS/sounder aboard?

Possibly lights running off a battery?

If not then this is irrelevant. Yet if you do have a need for an Aux power source, the battery for the Evolve or any other of their products will not support it. That means you have a heavy battery to run the motor and in addition you need to provide your own separate power system simply to run something as basic as an aftermarket Depthsounder/Fishfinder or an Ipod or your iphone on charge.

I have been told that the engineers in Germany are now aware of this no brainer. Yet considering all the weight this product adds to the vessel, is it really worth it to loose 50% of your human engine? Remember please, you also have a highly capable sailing vessel.

If this 'dual power' issue could be resolved quickly, I'd be more than happy to cough up the 2 grand to install it on my boat as I'm not getting any younger :wink:

Until then, I will try to find better means and methods to improve the sailing capabilities of this fine boat. (Just an opinion)

Best Regard
Trinomite
East Coast of Vancouver Island, BC, Canada

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:44 pm 
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rhyolken wrote:
...we are considering getting an Evolve 2 motor. Does it make any sense to carry the motor and then only install it when we need it?
Yes. I believe it stows out of the way in the forward hatch (as does the battery pack). It plugs in and installs quickly in the drivewell. You would probably assign the evolve to a preferred cockpit and install the outlet at that location. The motor has a pigtail that plugs right in. The remaining Mirage Drive would be fully operational in the other cockpit and the combination would be very effective IMO. I have used this "hybrid" power mode in the single seaters with excellent results (easy pedaling, reduced power consumption and good cruising speed).
Quote:
I gather that the alternative of getting a rudder mount is now not an option since we have the new up/down rudder and the current rudder mount only works on the twist-and-stow version. Any chance that a rudder mount for the up/down version will become available.
Aside from the lack of availability, an evolve rudder mount is not feasible on the TI for a couple of reasons. The freewheeling prop would be a big drag at higher sailing speeds (remember that this is a semi-permanent mount). The evolve rudder would be an inadequate replacement to the standard TI rudder and would not have sufficient authority to control the boat properly under sail. Even on the standard kayaks, the evolve rudder mount, while sufficient for most non-sailing activities, is inferior to the standard rudder unless under power. 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:30 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Thanks for the info Roadrunner

As I said, I'd love to buy this motor for the times when a 6" flag won't even budge in my 'hood.
Another suggestion I offered to Torqeedo was a simple plastic folding prop to reduce drag when the boat is in sailing mode. Along these same lines:

http://www.flexofold.com/2-blade-racing-propeller/

On that issue I have had no response.

We can only wish and hope.
Thanks for your input
Trinomite

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:02 am 
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Location: sarasota,fl
rhyolken :
We split our time between the gulf coast (around Tampa bay) and Key West. We are out on our TI every weekend. There are many times we end up 15-25 miles from the launch site. There have been several ocasions where the wind has died completely, or worse yet we have to fight a head wind or current to return.
The first day we had our boat we took it out in the late afternoon and went out Big pass in Sarasota (where the current is very strong), and the wind died completely. My wife and I had to pedal very hard for 2-3 hrs to get back in to the launch site (about 6-7 miles). Well needless to say I got a free ticket (from her) to buy a motor. This was in spring 2010 and the Evolve wasn't on the market yet, and all I heard were horror stories from her sister about not being able to lift and carry the two 65 lb batteries for their Minnkota trolling motor and how many times they got stranded out on lakes with dead batteries and had to paddle in (one time taking 8 hrs to paddle in on Lake Huron) on their inflatable dingy (not too smart in my opinion).
I ended up making a motor mount that fits into the rod holders (they can also be purchased (fairly inexpensive)) and mounting a 2 hp 4 stroke gas motor to the boat. I purchased the motor from a mail order place in St Petersburg,FL ( http://www.smalloutboardmotor.com/20hpo ... ecamo.html ) The motor only weighs 20 lbs and propels the loaded TI to 4 mph. The motor cost me $525 and works ok, but is not really a salt water motor so it would be a good idea if you buy one to clear coat everything before using it, and make sure you wash it off after each use (the problem is mostly all the screws and bolts, which could easily be replaced with stainless bolts for $20) . I keep mine covered when mounted. Another issue I have is if there is a lot of chop the gas sloshes around in the integrated gas tank and the motor skips once in a while (air in the fuel line), I added a fuel filter in line which seems to fix most of that problem.
Even with this 2 hp motor I feel I'm still under powered and if I were to do it again I would have either bought the small Honda 2.0 hp (which I think weighs 27 lbs), or gone up to the Mercury/Tohatsu 3.5 hp (which I think is around 37 lbs), I think they are around $900 but I think are much more powerful and more reliable especially in salt water (kicking myself now that I settled for something less). If you can find a used 2 stroke (nobody makes new 2 strokes anymore (pretty much banned)) like a 3.3 Merc grab it, they are great motors and last forever and are much more powerful and lighter than anything new. Be careful though 2 strokes are being banned at a lot of places these days.
I only use my motor for emergencies, but always have it on the boat (just in case) and always carry 40 miles of fuel (1 gallon). I've had the motor now for a yr and a half and total spent on fuel to date is around $12 bucks.

There are a couple TI's out there with Evolves now, I am waiting to hear reports on speed and duration. Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:42 am 
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Hi Bob/Fusioneng!

Could you please attach a picture of your engine mount?
Kind regards
Seppo


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:21 am 
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Location: sarasota,fl
seppowa:
I went into great detail on it's construction, with pictures on the forum post ' The ultimate Tandem Island ( hydrofoils,Spinnaker,jib,etc) at viewtopic.php?f=69&t=33720.
If you have any additional question just let me know. It is actually very simple, I took some 1 1/2 PVC pipe and drilled cross holes through for 1/2" dia steel rod. I then drilled 2 holes into the end of a 2x4 x6 in long pressure treated wood, and glued the steel rods into the lumber with marine epoxy, I filed a few notches into the steel rod so it would hold better. After getting the steel rods positioned where I wanted everything, I then filled the inside of the PVC pipe with Bondo body putty (just shoved in in there and let it set up). The Bondo holds everything together and give the unit its structural strength. For a little additional strength I put a hose clamp around the two rods (inside the PVC pipe) and tightened it down (probably not neccessary). I've been running that motor mount now for about a year and a half with no problems (over a thousand miles on the boat as configured). Actually since making all those mods when I got the boat, I have just been using it as is and haven't made any additional changes since last summer, everything works flawlessly.
Yes it does take me a little longer to rig and get the boat ready (about 30-35 minutes) but it's worth it to me. There is a link to photobucket at the other post showing all the high res pics of all the changes.
Here is just the motor mount and Island hopper motor.
Image


Here is a rear view, the brace over the top is to help guide the sail control line over the rear passengers head. I suppose you could add rod holders or anything you like to it.
Image

You can also just buy a universal kayak motor mount they are only about a hundred bucks at http://islandhopperoutboards.com/kayakmount.html

Good luck
Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:29 am 
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Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Some kayak mount vendors recommend attaching ballast on the other end of the mount to help keep the kayak balanced.

Have you found ballast unnecessary?

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2010 Hobie Tandem Island
Boynton Beach, FL


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:22 am 
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Location: sarasota,fl
mkrawats :
You don't need any ballast on the TI, since it's a trimaran. I have had the same motor on my Revolution just screwing around, and you do need ballast on a regular kayak.
I have the Revolution rigged with jib, spinnaker, weighted keel, and motor mount and it sails pretty well (like a mini-TI without AMA's) but we don't use it much, thinking about selling it and buying a second TI. My Keel weight can swing back and forth so I could adjust for the offset motor weight, if I were to use it seriously I would definately add a ballast weight. When I was messing around I was careful not to turn the boat with the swiveling motor, I locked the motor and used the main rudder on the Revo because it felt like you could tip the kayak with side force from the turned motor, not likely though with the weighted keel which makes the boat impossible to tip over but I didn't want to take any chances. I don't think I would take theRevo out with the motor without the Keel weight on the boat for stability.
Thinking about it, it was kind of funny because even though the Revo is much smaller it didn't really go any faster than the TI (about 4mph) on motor power.
Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:42 pm 
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Bob, thank you so much! I think I go for a small 4-stroke (instead of electric motor) in my TI.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:14 am 
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Location: Estero FL
Does anyone have any performance data on an AI using the Evolve2?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:06 am 
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I would only use an eVolve for getting to / from the sailing area on the AI. The power of the AI sailing will quickly exceed the speed of the motor and it becomes drag. Only recommended in the drive well... not the rudder. Especially 2011 AI and all TI. It will no longer fit the rudder of those models.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:01 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Thanks Matt
Sorry, I do not want to sound like Mr DoOoM. I truly believe that electric power will eventually not be a matter of choice, but need.

Yet how tough can it be to retro the 24 volt Battery to run a 12 volt aux system.
In truth I was more pissed off at the arrogant aditude and the idiotic responses I got when I called Torqeedo central in Michigan only to have an obviously bored Receptionist ask we this very poignant question...
`Sir, what is an Auxilliary Power source`. After a 15 minute wait (on Long Distance) asking for Tech support, I was referred to an obvious warehouse employee who asked me why I would ever want that thing......grrrrrrr!
I eventally got a call from the Sales Manager for my Area who referred me to their retailers to do a sales job on me.
Yah, I get it.

Torqeedo thinks that they have reinvented the outboard motor.

They are so far out of touch, I`d rather use my Mirage Drive as I know it will work without concern instead of so called German efficiency and downright marketing arrogance and stupidity. Their larger outboards in the 5 hp range also have a highly disturbing whine that can ruin a person`s day on the water when all they want is peace and quiet (for about the same price as a small electric car, like a Golf Cart).

And no I am not Ànti German`. I was born near Munich, Germany back at a time when German tech was considered as an issue of pride, and not as a means to stick North Americans with poorly thought out products from a company that couldn`t give a rat`s butt about customer input...like a folding plastic prop to prevent the vessel from loosing most of it`s sailing speed due to subsurface drag!)

Back to the drawing boards, meine Herren!

Trinomite

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:24 am 
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"Yakass.net" has a decent forum, with a number of innovative ideas and folks willing to 'geek' with their Hobie boats. The below link is a user who has been working on his solution of using the Torqeedo.

http://yakass.net/articles/kayak-fishin ... d-torqeedo

Personally, I am skeptical about "under solar power unlimited", due to the current technology associated to solar cells.

In time, I intend to go with a 4 stroke, but need to put a FL registration on boat first, then make mount, then purchase engine. Sounds like more work than sailing.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:58 am 
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Hi All

I use a Honda 2Hp Motor on my AI. My setup is a 5/8" piece of marine grade plywood, which was cut to 34" X 72", with a second 5/8" border strip. It's bolted to the Akaks using 5/8" muffler clamps, with rubber padding cut from a standard pipe connector. My motor mount was a cut down auto ramp. bolted to the plywood tramp.

Sorry I won't have photos until the end of October.

The top speed of this setup was 8.4 mile per hour. I expect you could put the same set up on a TI, but use a larger 5 Hp motor. I fish on large mountain lakes in British Columbia, where storms come up, fast, and can't be seen from a distance.

This platform also mounts my fishfinder, speed indicator, and rod holders. It gives a solid feeling when flyfishing and spincasting. The surface temp of these lakes varies from 60 to 70 degrees F in the summer, so I wear a Gortex Dry Suit form Kokatat.

Using the E-Volve motor would also require purchasing a good generator to recharge the batteries, which would bring the cost to about $3500, verses the $1100 for the Honda Engine.


Bryan
Calgary, Canada


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