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 Post subject: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:22 am 
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I installed the Hobie Spinnaker kit. (Rant: Hobie needs to hire a writer for a few months to re-write all of their product documentation. The present instructions are dated, cryptic, and sometimes just plain wrong - Rant over).

I have two problems with the spinnaker. First, the sail seems to get hung up on the front bridle when trying to reel it back into the snuffer. I'm thinking I need to move the snuffer opening out farther on the spinnaker pole. Thoughts? (See pic below). Hobie makes no mention in the instructions as to where the snuffer opening should be located on the pole.

Image

The second issue is with respect to the blocks and spinnaker sheet that attach to the spin's tack. The kit came with a racheting Harken Carbo block which is mounted on the two front corners of the trampoline. However, this block does not hold the sheet in place without some tension on my end of the sheet. Without that tension, the line just slips through the block. So, when the spin is deployed, I'm forced to hold the spin sheet or it will flutter. I want to replace these blocks with Harken Swivel Cams, so they'll lock the sheet in place when the sail is set. I posted a pic below of the present set up. What have I done wrong? The instructions did not describe how the blocks should be situated. There is nothing at the business end of the sheet (back where the captain sits) to keep tension on the line.

Image

To replace these blocks will be expensive. And, I'm a bit frustrated with Hobie since the instructions were so poorly written for this very expensive kit.

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Stayin' Thirsty...
2011 Hobie 16SE
Atlanta, GA


Last edited by motivated on Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:06 am 
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Location: Boston Ma / Newport RI
For starters, you need to tape the living snot out of the front bridal. The spin will catch on it and eventually get torn then you'll be sad. Tape up basically any sharp metal around the front of the boat (ring dings, shackles, even screw have sharp burrs that will eat up the spin) to keep the sail from getting torn.

Also, if you still have your bridal fly, get rid of it, the spin will definitely get caught on it and ruin them both. Go to cassette tapes on your bridal for steering pointers. They eventually wear out, but keep a roll in your sail box for adding a new one when needed.

With regards to the spin blocks, I would not recommend using any sort of cleat, you need to use a racket block. The spin needs to constantly be trimmed, so cleating it off really defeats the point of having it. If your single handing, one hand is on the tiller and the other has the spin sheet. Two up, crew works the spin, sheeting in and out constantly keeping it trimmed. Look up the Tiger or Wildcat assembly manuals, they have decent instructions for running all the spin setups.

Good luck!

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Blair T

I love these calm moments before the storm, it reminds me of Beethoven...


'02 Hobie Tiger USA 1152


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:44 am 
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Tighten the mid line holding the pole to the bridle intersect point - it needs to 'prebend' the pole so that once its loaded up it won't lift the end of the pole up.

I would reverse the two blocks - tack the auto ratchet block and place that one on the side rail - (you also have it twisted)
I would just look at a Tiger or Wild Cat rigging - they are all the same -
The kit instructions are from France - and are correct except for the part regarding the tang system - since we have comptips in the US we just included a separate mast tang to place in the same location - that and the measurements are in mm - but they are converted to inches for you.

If you have questions feel free to e mail me direct.

Also from looking at your picture I would guess that your jib is rigged wrong too - that doesn't look right to me either...it needs to be shackled to the forestay adjuster.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:03 am 
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Jbernier wrote:
Tighten the mid line holding the pole to the bridle intersect point - it needs to 'prebend' the pole so that once its loaded up it won't lift the end of the pole up.

I would reverse the two blocks - tack the auto ratchet block and place that one on the side rail - (you also have it twisted)
I would just look at a Tiger or Wild Cat rigging - they are all the same -
The kit instructions are from France - and are correct except for the part regarding the tang system - since we have comptips in the US we just included a separate mast tang to place in the same location - that and the measurements are in mm - but they are converted to inches for you.

If you have questions feel free to e mail me direct.

Also from looking at your picture I would guess that your jib is rigged wrong too - that doesn't look right to me either...it needs to be shackled to the forestay adjuster.


Thanks, Jbernier and Tallguy, for the information, its greatly appreciated. Regarding the twist in the carbo block, it is twisted to give the block more line to grip. And, the jib in the photo is shackled to the bottom hole of the forestay adjuster. What you see up top is the actual forestay connection.

I typically sail solo which only gives me two hands for the controls. One is always on the tiller and without the spin, the other is typically managing the main sheet. So, if I have the spin deployed, it sounds like you are saying that the main would be set in the cam and I'd have my free hand on the spin sheet?

How much control over the boat do you have in this situation? When solo, there's not a lot of ballast and a good gust could cause me to tip if the main is set in the cam block in and my hand is on the spin sheet.

And, Tallguy, can you explain what you mean by "Go to cassette tapes on your bridal for steering pointers"?

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Stayin' Thirsty...
2011 Hobie 16SE
Atlanta, GA


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:24 am 
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motivated wrote:
Regarding the twist in the carbo block, it is twisted to give the block more line to grip. And, the jib in the photo is shackled to the bottom hole of the forestay adjuster. What you see up top is the actual forestay connection.

I typically sail solo which only gives me two hands for the controls. One is always on the tiller and without the spin, the other is typically managing the main sheet. So, if I have the spin deployed, it sounds like you are saying that the main would be set in the cam and I'd have my free hand on the spin sheet?



I believe that's why they recommend you swap the spinnaker block positions. If you move the carbo block to the outboard position, it will automatically have more line engagement as the line will wrap as it goes to the block on the front crossbar. I would not sail with the block flipped the way you have it.

Something still looks wrong with your jib. You should not have that much space between the tack grommet and the shackle.

When sailing with the spin up, you leave the mainsheet cleated and work the spin. The mainsail acts as your backstay. If you dump the mainsheet in a puff, you risk breaking the mast. If it's windy enough that you're at a risk of flipping, either find a crew or don't use the spin.

sm


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:30 am 
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Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
What I've done previously is cleat the mainsheet (but keep it within easy reach) and play the spinnaker sheet. At least on the 18 (and I would guess on the 16 too), the main acts as your backstay when using a kite, so you can't ease it much without running the risk of snapping the mast.

Downwind the tiller and spinsheets are much better control than the mainsheet. in a gust, bear off to more of a run (easing the spinnaker as needed) to decrease the apparent wind and help blanket the spin behind the main. as the gust passes, come back up to bring the apparent wind up and forward so the boat accelerates again. Plus, be sure to keep your head out of the boat so you can anticipate the gusts (its a lot of sail for one person!) and not just react to them.

As for the cassette tape, take a ~12" piece of the tape itself out of the cassette, and tie one end of it to the bridle wire. it'll then blow back in the apparent wind and act as a wind vane for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:48 pm
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Location: Boston Ma / Newport RI
Yeah, what he said!

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Blair T

I love these calm moments before the storm, it reminds me of Beethoven...


'02 Hobie Tiger USA 1152


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Spinnaker 101. Awesome information, thank you.

P.S. The blue jib is a custom sail, and I have not compared the distance from the tack grommet and shackle on that sail versus the Hobie sail that came with the boat. I will do so and shorten it if it is indeed longer than the stock Hobie sail. Thanks for the keen eye.

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2011 Hobie 16SE
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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles
Motivated,
Sent you a message !!! Check it out !!!

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David


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm 
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I don't have the skills many sailors do so I HAVE to have a wind-vane. This is what I came up with. Also, note how far in front of the bridle the snuffer is. Also be aware of the info included in my message to you.

Image

Since this photo was taken, I've also lengthened the sock so it consumes all of the spi !!! Also, check out pre-bend in spi pole in pic below. Took the pole to a machine shop and had it pre-bent manually as I found it to be quite a chore to pre-bend it with the tension of the pole bridle.
Image

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Happy Sailing,

David


Last edited by DavidBell47 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:02 pm 
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DavidBell47 wrote:
Motivated,
Sent you a message !!! Check it out !!!


Fantastic info, thank you!

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Stayin' Thirsty...
2011 Hobie 16SE
Atlanta, GA


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:05 pm 
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srm wrote:
Something still looks wrong with your jib. You should not have that much space between the tack grommet and the shackle.
sm


I compared the length from the grommet and shackle on the aftermarket blue jib and my OEM Hobie Jib. The Hobie was 2.5", while the blue one was 6". I'll be doing some work to fix it.

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2011 Hobie 16SE
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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:52 am 
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 12:27 am
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Location: Denmark
The Blocks are wrong.. rachet blocks on the sidebar!
To save the spi from the hole ajuster ,i use noepren with velcros called lizzard skin ( from a moutainbike) -works great!(i have a foto i can send you if you like)
A little good "upgrade" is a small block on a rubberline that lifts the spi halyard out of the cleat ..then it wont jam in the middle of at downtake.
we also change the standard rubberline/block that holds the spi halyard to the aft crossbar ,and put on a longer one that runs under the tramp -al the way to the dolphin striker.it gives the halyard line more room to play with.
when i gybe ,i leave the main and dive under! no sheeting out ..then i dont capzise(so much)
you can also change the standard spi halyard to 4mm. runs so much better ,but remember to have a "sock" (dont know the right word) where the halyard is cleated ,or it wont hold so well..
good luck

Flemse

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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:33 am 
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Flemse wrote:
We also change the standard rubberline/block that holds the spi halyard to the aft crossbar ,and put on a longer one that runs under the tramp -al the way to the dolphin striker.it gives the halyard line more room to play with.

This is my config as well, and it works great !!!

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David


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 Post subject: Re: Spinnaker Kit Issues
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:12 am 
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DavidBell47 wrote:
Flemse wrote:
We also change the standard rubberline/block that holds the spi halyard to the aft crossbar ,and put on a longer one that runs under the tramp -al the way to the dolphin striker.it gives the halyard line more room to play with.

This is my config as well, and it works great !!!



Picure please? I'm re-rigging everything this weekend, would be great to see the setup.

Thanks

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2011 Hobie 16SE
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