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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:57 pm
Posts: 96
Location: Western Australia
Must be a weighted keel :D

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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:01 pm
Posts: 2
I love the TI3 mods with the amas and akas moved to the rear position! I've been looking at many kayak sailing alternatives. I'm really in love with the Mirage drive system so figuring out how to get the most from a TI is very important to me. I noticed that in all the youtube videos that TI users get very wet with lots of bow and ama splash. Some folks even designed methods to reduce bow splash with front skirts. I also noticed that other sail-yaks like the Triak had the amas mounted far to the rear and got virtually no bow splash even in moderate to heavy wind. You can watch videos on the rear mounted amas on the Triak here... http://www.triaksports.com/gallery/ But the Triak doesn't have the mirage drive and no tandem model. So it seems the best option for me so far is a modified TI3. THANKS to all for all the great info shared on this forum, especially the innovative TI3 mods! Bob


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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2568
Location: Kailua 96734
Thanks Bob - welcome to the forum.

I noticed the similarity to Triak and others, right away. The hull looks faster in this mode.

Adding a crossbar to the rear of the TI Is a very cheap mod, and could really pay off for the solo sailer.

We'll continue testing it and reporting how it works relative to having 3 sets of Akas (the TI3 mode) and every other mode we can think of. It's early in our experiment, but in time we will see how effective and reliable this mod proves to be. The swells will tell.

A word of caution - this is a test - this is only a test,...

Pretending to be like Batman can be fun, but risky. I remember when I was 6 years old I put on a superman suit and jumped off the roof of my house. Nearly broke both my ankles. :lol:

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"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:25 am
Posts: 3
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Hi Nohuhu
I get that this is a test... but I'm very interested in this..!

The parts... ?
- 79510721 X BAR CLAMP TOP (two of these? )
- 79510731 X BAR CLAMP BOTTOM (two of these? )
- 8032088 SCREW (four of these? )
- 8080561 WASHER (six of these? )
- 8030451 SCREW (CUP ATTACH) (two, or none of these? )
- 8050111 NUT (CUP ATTACH) (six of these? )

Query... ?
Is the forward or rear XBar assembly being used for the third XBar?
- 79531201 XBAR FWD ASSY, or
- 79530201 XBAR REAR ASSY

Could you clarify the quantities & parts used please?

thanks, Steve


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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:51 am 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2568
Location: Kailua 96734
Yup! We are still up to no good in the batcave. :wink:

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Fortunately, I found a backup of my backup footage and now am able to bring you the latest phase of our TI3 testing. The "TI3 Haka/Tramp Mode".

Image

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The goal today was to combine Haka benches with Hobie tramps and test them side by side.

These are 3rd generation Haka benches. Built to gently cradle a 400lb Marlin. (Or several supermodels).

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Turnbuckles now add support to the rear seating platform, and a new bench replaces the tramps.

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We have tried to create a continuous line of seating from bow to stern. The crew should be able to move freely around the boat (at rest or in motion) and explore other comfortable and effective sailing positions.

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And for the new rear seat, there is an improved, adjustable hiking stick.

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All that's left is to try them out on the water.

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We set out on a breezy day to attempt as many tacks and points of sail as possible and got our wish. Capt Gary wasted no time walking the planks, getting the feel of the new seat, grab rail and tiller arm.

Image

We paid close attention to any sagging of the rear Akas or submarining of the Ama's in the back. This proved not to be a problem, particularly while underway.

By spanning the 2 rear Akas with the rigid seat and adding the new turnbuckle supports, the rear hiking position was now rock solid. Just the improvement we were looking for, over the original design with ill-fitted tramps.

We took turns hiking out. I was able to easily slide from the tramps to the overlapping bench seat (just over the Aka bar) which I found to be a fantastic position for balancing the boat and working the sheet.

The hard bench gets you higher, and allows you to fine tune your ballast more effectively than tramps. You enjoy a better view and a more "alert" sailing position. (On the tramps I tend to spread out, lay down and close my eyes). :)

Best of all, you can communicate with your sailing partner better, and maintain eye contact much of the time.

Image

You can begin to see how many seating variations are possible once you add the third set of Akas to the TI and begin to mix and match Ama positions, tramps and Hakas. Simply put, there is now more TI to enjoy and more ways to share it.

Image

Wait till you see the "TI3 Party Barge" mode! Cheers!

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"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


Last edited by NOHUHU on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 253
"And for the new rear seat, there is an improved, adjustable hiking stick."

Manufactured by Grumman Ironworks from the looks of it.

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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:01 pm
Posts: 2
Hello NOHUHU;

Did you notice more or less bow and ama splash with the amas in the forward or rear position? What combination gave you the driest ride?

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2568
Location: Kailua 96734
Fly4v, that's the expandable "HyroTiller Pro 5000"

(a $10 squeegee handle with a couple 1/4" stainless padeyes) :idea:

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"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2568
Location: Kailua 96734
Bob, there is noticeable bow lift (and some Ama lift) in both modes, one of our goals. We are still analyzing this and we shoot video on these trips for comparison.

Shifting the Amas back seemed to me to clean up the bow wake and make for a smoother, drier ride. For one thing, the wake is shifted back maybe (6-12") to a rounder part of the hull. Also, with front Akas removed, there is no wake hitting them or causing splashup/drag.

When you sail the TI in the "missionary position", you might recognize that this is one of the few weaknesses of the design. At speed, the Aka knuckles look like are getting hit by a firehose and the front passenger takes a bath. The cockpit fills with water. Skirts help but don't solve the problem of drag.

BEFORE:
Image

AFTER:
Image

The act of hiking out can help balance the hull laterally and this cleans things up a lot. Being able to lift the bow a little takes it a step further.

In the "rear-Ama mode" the front passenger has no tramps so they usually stay in their seat while the pilot hikes out, so this mode is better for solo sailing or taking a less active passenger along. The boat's owner seemed to favor this configuration and we will be testing it again soon.

In any "TI3 mode" you can add outboard seating for several crew members and this fundamentally changes the way you approach sailing the boat. The pilot in the rear enjoys the biggest improvement.

Image

All the TI3 modes seem to love upwind sailing and hard reaches, and are well behaved on the downwind runs. So far, those runs have lacked large swells, so we may have a few surprises ahead. As with any Hobiecat, the crew needs to be extra careful about unintended jibes while hiking out, or you will find yourself dangling over the leeward Ama. :o :o

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"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


Last edited by NOHUHU on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2568
Location: Kailua 96734
stevebrown wrote:
Hi Nohuhu
I get that this is a test... but I'm very interested in this..!

The parts... ?
- 79510721 X BAR CLAMP TOP (two of these? )
- 79510731 X BAR CLAMP BOTTOM (two of these? )
- 8032088 SCREW (four of these? )
- 8080561 WASHER (six of these? )
- 8030451 SCREW (CUP ATTACH) (two, or none of these? )
- 8050111 NUT (CUP ATTACH) (six of these? )

Query... ?
Is the forward or rear XBar assembly being used for the third XBar?
- 79531201 XBAR FWD ASSY, or
- 79530201 XBAR REAR ASSY

Could you clarify the quantities & parts used please?

thanks, Steve

Yes - it's the rear crossbar and Aka set.

It requires the longer TI crossbrace, due to the taper of the hull.

The grabrail connecting the rear Aka sets is custom-made of aluminum, but uses the standard Hobie ball brace and end cap assemblies to secure it (it pops off quickly, just like the stock crossbrace connection).

Anyone seriously wanting to see the drilling, plumbing and such of this setup should contact me via PM. This mod is experimental (and not cheap), therefore any information is posted as food for thought, not as a cookbook (as in "recipe for disaster")

We intend this as info-tainment. So Batman, GRRR and myself hope you all are getting at least a good chuckle out of this. :wink:

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"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:04 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
WOW! Forget the price.Look at the weight, etc.

http://www.warrenlightcraft.com/specstandemsail.html

Can we get the Warren's to do tandems as SOT's ? :mrgreen:

Or Hobie to contract with them to do a high end custom.

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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1039
Location: sarasota,fl
AlohaDan :
It looks like that extra 80 lbs weight savings on the Warrens Tandem adds about $10k to the price tag (about $125 per lb), from what I am seeing you can buy 3 TI's for the price of one of these. I'm sure the Warrens are a terrific boats, but I actually kind of like the roto molded hull on the TI, yea it gets scratched and beat up but boy is it hard to break.
I also have furling jib and genaker sails mounted on my TI (but they only cost me a couple hundred bucks to design and build). The boom type sail probably gives their boat a little better performance, but I actually like the TI furling sail because in bigger wind it can easily be furled and adjusted, plus it's extremely simple and fast to rig/unrig. I am assuming the Warren boat is just as wet as the TI, I think getting wet has more to do with how close you are to the water with this type of boat than anything else, regardless of the boat brand.
I also don't think I could ever loose my Mirage drives, have grown very fond of them.
The only wish I have is if AMA's were mounted further out on the TI, if it were 12 ft wide it would be perfect (with the extra sail area), in the mean time I have to use the 50 lb swinging keel weight in higher winds. The TI3 project looks very interesting to me.
Maybe we could fill the TI AMA's with helium and get the boat weight down to 150 lbs, but then you have to teather them down when not using them (just kidding)
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2568
Location: Kailua 96734
It's been pretty quiet at the site this week. Time to spice things up.

Let me introduce my favorite Island ride so far - THE HOBIE TI3 IN DUAL HAKA MODE

Image

In this episode we have fully supported Haka benches for both crew members (and anyone else anxious to get on board).

Image

As we weaned ourselves off the tramps, we began to appreciate the high, dry, solid sailing positions that the benches provide.

Image

Image

Weight distribution and transfer seem ideal with the dual benches. They effectively tie together all 3 sets of Akas, providing more stability and added leverage for the rear passenger/pilot. For the solo sailor, it's now far easier to counterbalance the sail and lift the bow.

Image

As the passenger/sheetman, I spent almost no time in the front cockpit during this run, except while tacking or furling the sail. The spot where the benches overlap ended up being my favorite.

Image

The double wide seating there made it easier to hop back and forth. When I wanted, I could "hang ten" near the nose, or slide all the way back beside the rear cockpit. But hanging far out to windward (beyond the Amas) is the most exciting way to travel.

(In a stroke of genius, I determined that the bungee balls should be positioned under the benches, rather than on top :o )

Image

The winds were light to moderate this day so we took turns hiking out, and we both jumped on the deck to rebalance the hull when there were sufficient gusts.

In the T3 Dual Haka Mode, we retained a clear view of the bottom at all times and could paddle, load and unload very easily. This made landing/docking very easy - even for the solo sailer. You can actually walk upright from end to end, which is a very cool experience on a boat this size.

Image

You really get the impression that you are sailing a larger, tighter, better balanced boat. So far, this crazy mod has given us great feedback, and it feels like a fun way to maximize the sailing, seating and storage potential of the TI.

I certainly am enjoying the change in "perspective", and we will be taking other AI/TI owners on future runs to get their opinions.

We would love to hear your impressions too.

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"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


Last edited by NOHUHU on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 253
Approved for passengers already! :D

Your mod are no longer "safe for home". When Household 6 saw the haka benchs on the AI, the first thing she said was why not have decking on the whole thing. :lol:
She sees your post and I will have to make new benches :? and buy TI amas.

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Last edited by Fly4v on Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: THE TI3 PROJECT
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:12 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Looked like a fun project.

On a rough day, I'm finding the Hobie tramps can sag low enough to make contact with the swells. My cooler was bouncing around enough on a particularly rough day that I was worried that it was going over. Luckily, no beer was lost. :mrgreen:

Your haka bench design seem much more rigid and is less likely make contact with waves or catch wind. More so, it adds more aka support and you pulled off balancing the boat while comfortably accomodating extra adult sized passengers. Very cool!

Time to build a Nohuhu inspired haka bench...

shaka,

cliffs2yak


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