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 Post subject: reefing
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:10 pm 
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I know what everyone is going to say already, you don't reef a 17 and it won't work anyway. Well here is the thing, if I carry out my plan to use this boat in the Everglades Challenge it is a requirement that I can put in two reefs so I have to figure this out. Took this topic up on SA a few months ago but didn't get great feedback. One idea was to add 2 more ring hooks on the mast lower down, another was to change over to a system like the Wave with a piece of wire and several stops. Anyone here have a better option? I like the wire idea as I have a Wave as well and the wire is easy to get in/out which is good. The rule states you must be able to reef while sailing in rough conditions. I am aware that the sail shape will not be good and the boom is really too low for this but rules are rules. It has to be a usable system and it will be inspected before the race. Kinda weird but it is a challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: reefing
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
I'm not sure you would be able to get halyard like the one on the wave out of the V stop while sailing in rough conditions, by yourself. I like the idea of extra ring hooks, but they will most likely poke holes in your sail while fully raised.

mmiller wrote:
There is no system I know of for reefing an 18. Any Hobie with a CompTip would have a problem reefing due to the plastic luff track. They need to be fully hoisted to lock and stay within the track. We added an extra aluminum section to the Sport Cruiser for this purpose, you could try that, but keeping the sail head in the aluminum is critical. Otherwise the luff pulls out. It is a tough balance between halyard tension and downhaul / mainsheet tension.


It would be the same for the 17.

Im running out of battery life on the computer, I'll think about it some more, and if I get any crazy ideas i'll post it.

What kind of 17 do you have, a SE or a sport?
How have the Hobie 18's that raced in that race previously handled reefing?

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1992 Hobie Cat 18 #16943
Hobie Fleet 198, Rapid City, SD


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 Post subject: Re: reefing
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:45 pm 
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with the extra hooks idea, do you ever really sheet out that far? with the mast rotating away from the sail I would think the hooks would be far enough away. If I went that route I would need to have custom hooks made as the mast shape is very different farther down. I am aware of the issue with the comptip track and the need for the aluminum section. I discussed this problem with Surf City cats and we discussed the need for the metal piece, I was hoping there was a full length piece I could get but no luck. Darn nanny state! I suppose you are right about the Wave lock idea, provably would be tough to get undone. However the same is true of the 17 hook.
I have looked at pics of the 2 18's in the last race and I could not find reef points on one. Tried to contact the sailors but didn't get far.


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 Post subject: Re: reefing
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:52 pm 
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to answer your last question I have the SE but will probably add a few parts from the sport. I will most likely add the forward spreader and the stays that requires. Seems better for the long haul. Might add a flat A-sail for power reaching in the light stuff as well. Not planning on a jib at this point. I weight 145#s and I think the main will do. Me plus 100#'s of gear will be slightly heavy for the 17 but I can't count on the gear always working in my favor.


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 Post subject: Re: reefing
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
The hooks are only going to rotate away from the sail on one tack. They will push into the sail as the mast rotates the other direction.

As far as unhooking the sail on the water, at least with the 17 set up you can unhook it from sitting on the tramp, and don't need to be forward of the mast.


You might be able to mount a cheek block on the flat part below the sail feeder, that would allow you to redirect the halyard to a horn cleat mounted on the side of the mast.
Image

Image

Or maybe a cleat on the underside of the boom?

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1992 Hobie Cat 18 #16943
Hobie Fleet 198, Rapid City, SD


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 Post subject: Re: reefing
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:09 pm 
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Also its pretty crowded at the base of the mast. You might need to cut the sail track out so you have more room to get the excess sail out of the way. If I remember correctly you only have about 8 inches of room in there.

The Tigers have a mast hook, that might not be too bad on the sail, take a look at them. I'm not really sure how much clearance you have there.

Matt Bounds any ideas?

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1992 Hobie Cat 18 #16943
Hobie Fleet 198, Rapid City, SD


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 Post subject: Re: reefing
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:17 am 
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Tom,
Bit of a brain fart on my part about starboard tack, not sure why but I kept thinking the sail would also rotate away from the hook but after your post I thought about it and you are 100% correct. I will look into the FX hook in a bit. I have a plan to cut away some of the mast track at the base to allow for easier raising/reefing. It is very tight and my sail is not stock, it's a Halsey Lidgard and I think it is longer along the luff than stock. The foot seems a bit long too. Extends to the end if the outhaul without very much tension. Already had a sailmaker look at it when I was looking at the boat and he thought it was a good looking sail, he saw no problem making the reef points.


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 Post subject: Re: reefing
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:03 pm 
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Location: Jersey Shore
If your primary reason for installing the reef points is to satisify rules requirements, then I would simply mount a horn cleat at the base of the mast. This will allow you to simply drop the halyard down to the desired reef point and then cleat it. Functionally, it's probably not the best solution because you'll have a lot of stretch from the halyard, but if you just need to meet the rules, then this would be the easiest and cheapest way to do it. In the event that you did need to use the system, it should still be fairly effective. You might also consider changing out the plastic luff track to aluminum sections at the reef points.

sm


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 Post subject: Re: reefing
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:27 pm 
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srm,
With you on that theory. No reef is going to be great, the boat just isn't designed for it. The cleat idea has merit, however I am trying to be as close to optimal as possible. It is possible that I will really need to be reefed and even more important I might sail a major part of the race reefed. In an attempt to sail 300 miles on a 17 alone I will be backing off well before optimal. I will probably sail at 60% to 70% max for most of the race. It is a long way and finishing is what is important, not maxing out on speed for short term gains. As per the luff track it is already in the plan. The stock track I have already has a piece missing near the top so I know I need the aluminum section. Like I said, wish I could get a full length piece.


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