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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:46 am 
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Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
resourceriderStL wrote:
Man, this is so frustrating :? . Right when I think I have a decent Hobie close to me, I get let down again. I’m scheduled to meet this gentleman on Saturday. If I end up buying it, I’ll post more pictures right away.

He is supposed to be texting me the HIN off the title. He has stated, on multiple occasions, the title reads 1991. It sounds like I need to make sure the title has the same HIN as the boat. The owner before him might have given him a title to a different boat, without current owner even knowing.

I guess a ’82 doesn’t scare me. It just means I’m up against a different set of challenges. All these pictures of broken halls, conversations about bad design’s, and even soft spots sound a bit intimidating for a newbie on the Mississippi river :| .

It could be that someone misread the HIN at some point (they're hand engraved and get a little faded after a while), and it actually is a 1981. OR maybe its the wrong title entirely. I don't know how you'd go about fixing the title from a legal standpoint. It's not necessarily an issue in terms with the physical boat, *if* you know what you're actually getting and pay according.

There's a good post someone wrote this spring on what to look for different model years that I found very helpful when I was looking at mine:
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34975

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:17 am 
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Don't let the age of the boat scare you! Three seasons ago I became the proud owner of 1982 H18 and I could not be happier. The boat is rock-freakin'-solid! In fact, there are six H18s on my beach and each of them was built in the early 1980s. Some will tell you how the older boats are a bit heavier (read: slower) but I'd be willing to bet >90% of the H18 sailors out there (myself included) couldn't tell the difference once the boat is on the water. The only thing I don't like about my boat is the older-style rudder castings, which, due to wear, no longer "kick up" like they're supposed to. My solution? I simply unlock the rudders before I reach the beach/shallows. Not even an inconvenience sailing here on the Long Island Sound but I can see how it might be sailing on a lake where you are more likely to encounter submerged objects (stumps, etc.) .

Check over the things the other posters suggested and if the boat looks good, go ahead and pull the trigger. Your expensive (typical) replacement items would be the Trampoline (~$500 - my vinyl OEM tramp is over 20-years old!), Mainsail (~$1,500) and Mainsheet system (~$500). I replaced my black plastic rudders with a pair of used EPO rudders I purchased here for ~$100.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Location: Glen Lake, MI
I'll second BrianCT on not being discouraged by the age of the boat. My '82 that I referenced earlier has been a great boat with zero problems. The two previous owners took reasonably good care of it and the hulls were rock solid with very little wear on the keel.

I paid $1700 for it in Northern Michigan (w/o wings) and feel that it was a fair deal since the boat was in very solid condition and it came with a nice aluminum trailer. I did spend some time cleaning/buffing/tuning/fixing and have spent a couple hundred more on a few upgrades and replacing lines, but that's to be expected for most 30 year old boats.

If the boat has only been sailed in fresh water, the old-style rudder castings may very well still work fine. Mine did after I cleaned and lubed them. I even have a set of the newer castings from a parts boat that I'm hesitant to install since I've had no problems with the originals.

Also, keep in mind that many more H18's were built from the late 70's through mid to late 80's, than in the two decades since then, so most of the boats that come up for sale will be of that vintage.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:12 am 
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Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Our Club H18's are mostly 1982 Vintage. They are solid and tough.
We've done a delam repair on half the fleet, one has a cracked front cross bar, (strapped and riveted with a s/steel plate), half of them have 'shortened rudders'*, and they are really scratched, bashed and dented.

HOWEVER, they still sail great. Which is why Cat sailors at our Club prefer the H18's to all other choices.

Keep looking, if the boat has been fairly well maintained, (especially the hulls), the rest can be easily repaired or replaced.

*Shortened rudders - a condition arising from rudder mechanism's locking when returning to shore, and the top part of the rudder fracturing at the front drilled hole. Rudder is then removed, the broken part cut off, about 3" lower, the holes are re-drilled and the blade is remounted. No, we don't even enter races with these old boats!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:36 am 
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Location: St. Louis
This is the HIN # off the title. Ccmh3791m191. When I get there at 2:00, the first thing I will do is compair to the hull HIN#.

If everybody is set on it being an early 80's boat, it probably has a bogus title. :o

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:23 pm 
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I did not buy the boat today and could use some advise.

1) the boat's HIN # matched the title, but it was missing the last few numbers??? The HIN off the title reads Ccmh3791m191. Compare it to the picture of the HIN below. Tell me what you think...

2) I have a sails picture guide that indicates to color of sails and what year those were fabricated, I downloaded it from this forum. Nothing matched???

3) everything looked good besides that. No soft spots. trailer was good. sails looked good. mass looked straight. the wing tramps were kinda falling apart.

What should I do? Is it a 81 or 91? Can anybody tell by the pictures below? If it's a '81, but has a title for a '91, should I care?

plEaSe HeLp :|

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
Condition is far more important than age. I have a 1994 SN hull that was titled as a 1996.

Bottom line... Don't worry about it. Do worry about softspots, delamination, & hull damage. Then worry about condition of the tramp, mast, trailer, sails and rigging.

This forum is full of happy folks with old boats. Keeping them going is part of the fun. Just realize with a 91 or an 81 you have bought yourself a project. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:44 am 
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Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
How about this...

Open up the portholes, take a flashlight, and look to see on the INSIDE of the hulls if there is a 'tab' of fibreglass that has been added (at the front cross bar mounting area) to the joint between the DECK and the upper part of the sidewall of the HULL. About 4" wide by about 8" long, left and right side of each hull. That's what the factory did after about 1990 onwards, in which case, that H18 may well be a 91.

Some folks added the tab afterwards, and the anchor plates inside and outside of the front cross bar joint. You can see when amateurs did the work....if it hasn't been done, you're advised to check this Forum about the process and do it...especially with wings.

SRM, (Matt B, CMSailor, and others) am I reasonably correct?

If there are no tabs, my guess is that unless you get a fluoroscope to see the rest of the Serial #......it's an 81. 81's are still VERY solid boats....

Can you get pictures of where the front cross bar bolts to the hull?
x 4, Port/Strbd/Inner/Outer.
Is there a shroud anchor plate there? Part # 6410 0001, which goes up underneath the lip of the hull, then the bolts that hold the cross bar go through it before you add the nylock nut.

As an earlier contributor said, you'll never find the perfect boat....find a good one and learn how to maintain it...that's all part of the fun.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:03 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
It is a bit odd...those sail colors are 90's vintage, if memory serves, but the hull stripes look more early '80s to me.

Here's what I would inspect-

- What rudder system does it have?. If it's the old system (which is what it looked like in the previous picture), then the boat would be pre-'87 (unless someone installed the old rudder system for some reason, but there would be holes in the transom where the gudgeons had been relocated).

- Does it have a comptip? If it doesn't have a comptip, then it would also be pre-'87.

- What kind of dagger board trunks does it have? Look in the bottom of the trunk. If there is no seam at the bottom of the trunk, then it's a '90s boat. If there's a seam at the bottom of the trunk (i.e., separate daggerboard well), then it's pre '90s.

- Does it have upgraded front crossbar anchor plates installed? If it doesn't have upgraded front crossbar anchors (with four bolts that go into the side of the hull), then it's from about '86 or earlier.

As the previous poster said, the age really isn't that critical. As long as the boat is solid, that's what really matters. All of the upgrades done over the years can be installed on an older boat. But it is nice to know what you're buying.

As far as the last three digits missing off the engraved serial number on the hull, apparantly that's not all that uncommon. The beginning of the serial number gets put on the hull right when the hulls are built. But the last three digits don't get engraved until the hulls are ready to ship, and sometimes the factory forgets to put them on.

sm


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:58 am 
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Judging from the photos, this looks like a pretty nice 18 for the price, especially if you can bargain the guy down a couple of hundred. You've got a nice-looking trailer (Not a rust bucket. The sail tube and sail box will come in really handy), nice-looking sails (nice color pattern; no "fade line" on the jib which would indicate it wasn't stored furled in the hot sun for long periods) and a newer, non-original trampoline. Add in the fact you've got a $500+ "option" with the Magnum wings and it looks like a pretty good deal to me. The boat would likely clean up well with some elbow grease (e.g., those crappy old hull pinstripes are simple to remove with a razor blade).

Headed down to the beach to finish winterizing my boat right now. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:57 pm 
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Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Hi,

After reading everyones comments and studying the posted pic's (as best I can) ... I believe what you have here is TWO different boats that were combined, for what ever reason. It would be very easy to sand off the origonal serial #'s and re-engrave new serial #'s using a small vibrating engraver ..... (the gellcoat is thick enough to do this ....)

Evidence:
Mr SRM is correct on spotting that the rudder system is a pre-87' "old style" H18 system .... the pin stripe is early 80's ... the serial number appears to be engraved much lowwer down on the transom (and crooked ....) then is usual, as it is usually engraved just under the hull lip ( and in a reasonable straight line ...) .... from the pic's it appears there are no crossbar and shroud reinforcements installed (you need to look closely) ... by 91' "SX" wings were availible and "Magnum" wings were phased out of production and those "Mag" wings are earlier production since there is no "crossbrace" between the larger diameter main curved pipe and the smaller straight pipe on either end .... BUT .... the sails are from the 90's ....

So ...

None of this is proof positive .... but there are enough questionable points to raise suspicions .... what manufacting date is on the trailer title ???

If the boat is solid ... and everything else in reasonable shape start negotiating .... and see if you can get it for approximently $2000.00 or less ...

Speculation/Theory:
Someone has two H18's, one new ... one 10 years old (it's not uncommon to have a "beater" ...) .... the newwer boat is at the beach, the older one at home ..... a storm, maybe a hurricane even, comes through destroying the newwer boat .... BUT ... you have the sails and title at home along w/ the older boat ..... OR ... maybe they were trying to get the boat offically registered ... (read below ...)

Positive Point:
Since you "DO" have a title, you can get the boat registered .... that is getting to be a BIG problem as alot of the older boats were not "titled" when origonally sold as it was not required by most states at the time for non-motored/under 20' boats .... this goes for boat trailers also. (... just investigate the Texas/Oklahoma stand-off, origonally one state titled boats but not trailers ... the other titled trailers but not boats ... now try selling a boat w/trailer between those two states .... AAAHHhhhhhhhhhhhh)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Location: St. Louis
IT'S MY BOAT...thanks everyone. Stripping the decals first..let the fun begin..

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:36 pm 
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LeelanauH18 wrote:
That it's not a '91 boat has been firmly established, but as a point of reference my '82 had those same hull graphics before I stripped them off.

any advise for removing the stripes off the side? how was the paint underneith?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:46 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
resourceriderStL wrote:
any advise for removing the stripes off the side? how was the paint underneith?

The surface of the boat isn't paint - it's polyester gel coat.

Removing the stripes will leave a "shadow" - like the old registration numbers that were removed. The surface underneath is actually in better condition than the rest of the boat.

Mild heat (hairdryer), a plastic scraper (not a razor blade) and elbow grease will get the stripes off without scratching the gel coat (which is relatively soft).

Acetone will remove any residual adhesive.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:31 pm 
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Location: Greenville SC
Out of curiosity, please investigate the dagger board trunks and report back. I really like that sail as well.

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