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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:26 am 
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Definitely .......... Torqeedo has 1 for $1000 that is 45 watts I think ........ supposed to be able to troll all day with it without using your battery ....... but at this moment I'm not really happy with them so an alternative might be interesting to look at .......


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:50 am 
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I basically scanned all of the links and there were no pictures.

Reminded me of the old Vapor Ware articles a decade ago on new wonderful computor add ons, programs and other non existing realities.

I hope that they have good luck and make a reasonable priced item. However with the estimated number of workers, the product will probably cost a lot more than the PA, my Jon boat or ?!

fusioneng wrote:
oops I had the name wrong, it is Ripjet

Tom:
Obviously I'm mistaken about your system, sorry about the mixup. I thought for sure you were mixed up with these guys ( http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20 ... /110519941 ). By your discription of your system, I was sure this was what it is (only in my mind apparently). Good luck in your ventures.
Bob

_________________
2009 Oasis
2010 Freedom Hawk 12
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:39 pm 
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Think this is a great thread!!! Bumping it up so new members can read it.

Regards...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:45 am 
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I keep waiting for this and I hope it is real:
http://www.bradenton.com/2011/05/12/318 ... ition.html
or
http://www.gizmag.com/green-samba-first ... re/114777/


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:13 pm 
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ecduzitgood:

If you search "google patents" for patent number 8047884 you will see the patent for the Ripjet propulsion. The patent was only awarded a few months ago (11/11), I'm sure they need time to get organized. There is alot of "patent speak" to read through, but you can pretty much figure out how it works by looking at the pictures. Cool stuff....
I know I am excited about it and will likely buy one for my TI as soon as they are available.
Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:28 am 
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That is one drawback of the patent system, rather than develop something and let the market decide the price based upon demand the price ends up inflated and the item ends up unimproved and slow to market due to patent protection. If the patent system wasn't in place businesses and individuals would have to develop and produce an item in the most efficient way to be the top supplier.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:11 am 
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ecduzitgood wrote:
That is one drawback of the patent system, rather than develop something and let the market decide the price based upon demand the price ends up inflated and the item ends up unimproved and slow to market due to patent protection. If the patent system wasn't in place businesses and individuals would have to develop and produce an item in the most efficient way to be the top supplier.


Not true ......... the patent system is designed to encourage new ideas and innovation. It's designed to allow the inventor time to develop a market and recover the development costs ..........

Who would take the time to invent a better mousetrap if some thief will just come along and copy it with cheaper parts ect ...........

Without the patent system too many inventors would be bankrupt while others reap the profits ......... with the patent, the inventor can ramp up production and build the brand before the cheap knock offs reach the market .......


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:33 am 
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So for instance if everything Hobie has a patent on didn't have patent protection it never would come to market??? I think it would, and at a lower price point, the person who can manufacture the item the cheapest would be the supplier, add shipping cost to the final product and you now introduce regional supplier advantages which I feel would lead to better options/choices for consumers.
I had an idea for a rescue device for people who are lost or need help. I looked and found there has been ongoing patents and yet have never seen the product. Lots of people would still be alive if it were available (patent search# term1 "rescue" term2 "balloon") leads to #3746285.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... PN/3746285


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:08 am 
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Hobie kayaks wouldn't be what they are today if not for the patent system. It costs time and money to develop new products -- those engineers don't come cheap! Patent protection allows inventors a certain amount of time to recover those costs. Memory Maker is absolutely right!

Everything does get to the open market eventually though -- patents expire. So ultimately competition prevails, prices drop and yesterday's new products are nice and inexpensive. Be patient and you'll get the best price -- hopefully the product is still relevant by then! 8)


Last edited by Roadrunner on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:22 am 
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Roadrunner wrote:
Hobie kayaks wouldn't be what they are today if not for the patent system. It costs time and money to develop new products -- those engineers don't come cheap! Patent protection allows inventors a certain amount of time to recover those costs. Memory Maker is absolutely right! 8)

I think they would be better, who can build it best.
For instance have you looked at the accessory catalog and seen the panel mount Ritchie compass (72020004 page 25 of the 2011 catalog)shown installed on a pro angler hatch lid? Look at the picture and tell me how that compass can be installed without interfering with the inner liner? Why don't they just mold an area for a compass? Is it not worth it to change their molds maybe??? Well if there were another people making them they would do it to gain market share in my mind.
Maybe a redesigned hatch cover...hello Hobie ;), opps I suppose this couldn't be patented now that it's public...have at it knock off folks ;), maybe make it seal better so you don't get so much water inside the hull if you capsize while your at it.

And if there were no patents they wouldn't be cheap knock offs they would just be cheaper exact copies. Also when it comes to research doesn't the government give grants for research.
Once again if you check the rescue balloon patent (pn.3746285)ask yourself would this have saved lives and yet where is it?
I chose this patent number because of it's age (1973), try a patent search Term1: rescue and Term2: balloon and you will see more current exsisting patents. Still no product available, why?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:06 pm 
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ecduzitgood:
A patent only protects the inventor for 17 years (depending on patent type), afterwhich anyone can do anything they like to make that mousetrap better, there is nothing preventing you from bringing the device you describe to market if the patent was granted in 1973, if it's a great idea just do it (thats what America is all about). I work for a big multi-national contract manufacturing company and see several new products every week from pretty much all industries ( ie.. Medical, Automotive, electronics, oil exploration, etc). There are a million good ideas out there just waiting for someone to make them.
Go for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:33 pm 
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@ ecduzitgood: Think of yourself on the other side of the patent -- you're the person who comes up with the idea for the Mirage Drive. Hobie finds out about it, and since you can't patent it in your world and you don't have as many resources (read that MONEY) as Hobie does, they beat you to the punch on manufacturing it, and you've got no recourse. Hobie would make all the money on your idea. Why would any investors want to finance your operation at that point?

Think of how much creativity would be stifled if there were no way of protecting things via patents, copyrights, or trademarks...there would be much less incentive to invent things because other people would be able to profit off of an inventor's work, and not the inventor him/herself.

As for your example about the compass mounting location...Hobie has probably made a decision based on market research that not enough people are interested in having a compass mounting location to make it worth the resources Hobie would have to devote to redesigning the kayaks, producing new molds, and then manufacturing. I'm satisfied that a compass mount on a kayak that already has something as revolutionary as the Mirage Drive is not going to be what causes a person to pick a Pro Angler over an Ocean Kayak Trident, so why would Hobie waste that money and reduce their profit margins in doing so?

The market dictates what products and services individuals and companies provide. Always.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:23 am 
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I still get emails almost every other day from folks wanting to know more about when my drive system will be available. The thing is - each of the 3 companies that were willing to bring it to market have declined precisely because I have no patent protection on it. They're afraid they'll spend a bunch of money to get it ready to market and then have somebody else knock it off. So, it continues to power just two Pro Anglers. (You probably couldn't patent a trained dolphin anyway.)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:46 am 
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I think patents only protect the people with the money who can afford the patent process. If all products could be made by anyone then there would be lower cost to make the products because even the equipment necessary to produce said products would be produced by the company/companies who could provide said product/equipment the cheapest.
How much should an inventor get for his idea?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:58 am 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
I still get emails almost every other day from folks wanting to know more about when my drive system will be available. The thing is - each of the 3 companies that were willing to bring it to market have declined precisely because I have no patent protection on it. They're afraid they'll spend a bunch of money to get it ready to market and then have somebody else knock it off. So, it continues to power just two Pro Anglers. (You probably couldn't patent a trained dolphin anyway.)

So another great idea that is squashed due to patents :cry:
It's up to you Tom, if you make your product public knowledge then no one person or company can get rich from it and everyone who wants one could have it, I will refere to it as a Tom Kirkman propulsion system no matter who knocks it off.


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