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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:41 pm 
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I have an older drive with a new click'n'go shaft installed in it which I use in a click'n'go hull. Yesterday I was out in strong wind & tide and the drive repeatedly popped out of the LH click'n'go clip - the clip "released" by opening to the "back/unlocked" position as opposed to the "front/locked" position. This has never happened before even in similar conditions and it became very frustrating because I was in a place where I really needed to make some progress but I kept having to stop to replace the drive in the clip. Notably the drive didn't once pop out of the RHS clip.

Has anyone had a similar experience and/or can anyone guide me as to possible reasons for the drive popping out in this way so that I don't have to put up with a repeat performance ?

As I was pedalling back I did consider the possibility of putting in a bungee between the clip(s) and the sail tie-down padeye at the front of the cockpit to put some tension onto the clips to hold them "locked" and prevent them releasing backwards to "unlocked"... any thoughts anyone?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:54 pm 
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The older drive was probable designed with the cam locks in mind. The Click 'N Go mech. requires that you replace the drum pin with a new one. The newly designed drum pin has splines in the center that keep it from rotating. The old style pin rotates and causes the click n' go to unlock - as the twisting pin walks open the locking mech.

Pound out the old drum pin with a new one and your good to go


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:57 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=60&t=12867

Image

Above is a link to more info and a pic of new splined drum shaft


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:02 pm 
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My drive has the new pin already installed in it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:44 pm 
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stobbo wrote:
My drive has the new pin already installed in it.


Ahh yes that is what you meant by a "click n' go shaft" :D :oops:
The only time I ever had the drive un-click was a couple times grabbing an old drive that was still using the old drum pin. Problem you described sure sounded like a wrong drum pin.
Of course I have accidentally unlatched it a few times with my foot.

Is it possible the pin is not well centered in the drive? Or the drive spine so worn the that the splined drum pin can still spin?

Maybe remove the Click n' go from the hull to make sure no dirt or corrosion is happening under the mechanism. The brass inserts beneath the click n' go are like what hold the akas in place and I know those are prone to salt water corrosion.

Oh yes there could be cracks in the hull causing a mis-alignment. Similar to the old cam column crack/break but now rarely seen under the new click n' go mech.


Good luck


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:41 am 
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I was out again yesterday & the drive kept popping out again so I checked it over this morning.

It appears that the central pin (the bit that clips into the click'n'go clips) was not central, protruding a few mm more on the starboard side than the port side (it keeps unclipping from the port side).

I slackened off the cables & tapped it back with a knocking stick (a.k.a. hammer) and retightened the cables

It looks like we have some good weather coming so I may well get out during the week - either way I will report back if this fixes the problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:33 am 
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Location: Hahndorf, South Australia
Yes, I know what your talking abount.
I was out on the river yesterday, and experienced the same problem.
on a 24km journey, the left hand click & go latch released by itself about a dozen times. :(
Am going to check it out tommorow.
Montedane


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Location: Escondido
Scribe or mark your drumshaft and verify that it is not spinning. If it is, you need a new drumshaft. The current shafts have a more agressive spline than the earlier versions. The fact that yours is off center is a symptom of a spinning shaft -- if the shaft rotates, it will climb out of the C&G, unlocking it on the way.

If your drumshaft is not spinning, here are a couple of fixes They involve
drilling, cutting threads and using a 1/4 X 20 Allenhead screw (the second version is capped for convenience).

Version 1:
Image
Note, here the screw blocks the retraction of the lever directly above the drumshaft. Teflon tape is used to add some friction so it doesn't spin out spontaneously. Simply screw in a couple of turns to block the retraction, unscrew a couple of turns to clear the main body for removal.

Version 2, lever retracted for removal of Drive. Note capped Allenhead screw is screwed out:
Image

Version 2, lever protruding, C&G locked. Note Allenhead screwed in a couple of turns to lock lever into main body.
Image

Essentially, Version 2 does the same thing as version 1, but is located higher in a more accessible area and has a more elaborate construction. Threads are nicked at the end to prevent backing out. I can provide more detail if you need it. 8)

PS -- The need for a lock like this is VERY unusual!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Roadrunner, thanks for the tips.

I will have a wiggle of the shaft to see if it is rotating but it is the newer (C&G) version with the chamfered rather than the rounded ends so it may already have the "more aggressive" splining (unless that was a later addition) - perhaps you could let me know (if you know) at what point the splines were modified to the more aggressive version...?

As to your other mod to prevent the c&G from unclipping... my solution was going to be to add a bit of bungee between the C&G lever and the sail tie-down padeye at the front of the cockpit; this would hold the C&G levers forward under the tension in the bungee & prevent them clicking backwards & opening. Do you think this might work if I don't manage to solve the problem by realigning the shaft ? Reason I ask is that I am always reluctant to drill unnecessary holes anywhere in my boat because it is always difficult to 'decommit' from such a procedure for whatever reason after the event so while your solution obviously will work, I would rather find a less drastic answer if there's one to be found...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:21 pm 
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I mark the 12:00 position, operate the Drive for about 5 minutes next time I'm out, and see if it has moved. Image

It wouldn't hurt to try the bungee. My first "fix" was like that, but using a scrap of Spectra. I drilled a hole in the offending C&G and anchored a loop with which to hook. Tried a couple of different versions. They both worked, but I didn't feel they were secure enough.
Image Image Image Image

If your bungee doesn't add enough additional tension to keep the Drive locked, you can always go with solid line. Take care where you attach the bungee so your foot doesn't interfere on the forward pedal motion. 8)

PS If you do end up drilling, remember, you're not drilling your hull, just one of the C&G units. Also, there is no need to do both units if only one side is acting up.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:33 am 
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thanks for the added info guys, very informative as always.
Stobbo, sorry for jumping on the back of your post, but it was very coincidental that you posted the same thing I experienced on the day.
Roadrunner, love the retification work on the C&G, I take it that your modifications have been done to allow for the rotation of the old style shafts?
Having a very close inspection on my mirage drive & C&G mounts,
I can't see any problem with the C&G, no abnormal wear or interference with the hull. so now I'm focusing on the mirage drive. The witness marks on the support shaft show that the shaft has not been rotating,
But I have noticed that there is slight excess movement in the drive as a whole when mounted in the C&G (in comparison to my wives revo which has had little use) both sideways & longways, not a lot, but maybe enough to "walk" the C&G cam back under use untill it unlocks. this makes sense considering the direction of force on the shaft when peddaling.
While searching for posts on adjusting the mirage drive, I have come across Roadrunners & Yakaholics posts re: servicing, tuneing & greasing the mirage drive which I might as well do now, while I'm concentrating on the drive.
Hopefully I'm on the right track, will keep you posted on the results.
Montedane.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Montedane - no problemo: that's what these forums are for 8)

RR - thanks again for the tips - good point you make about drilling the C&G - interesting to find that you have been through the same thought process as me wrt solving the problem.

A couple of further questions if I may:

As per Montedane's question: have you required a fix because you are still using the old style shaft in the C&G or have you found that you still need the fix with the new style shaft?

What do you mean "didn't feel they [bungee fixes] were secure enough" ? Did they continue to pop out despite the fix or did you perhaps feel that the solution was just a bit makeshift or something ?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:21 am 
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stobbo wrote:
...have you required a fix because you are still using the old style shaft in the C&G or have you found that you still need the fix with the new style shaft?
I have several C&G units and have tried several more -- NEVER a problem with any of them as long as the drumshaft doesn't rotate -- except this one unit, and only in certain circumstances. It's an odd situation -- doesn't matter what Drive I use. It only happens on the right side, at CPMs above 70 and speed beyond about 5.5 MPH -- takes about 5 to 10 minutes to retract the lever. I don't know if it's the C&G unit, mounting angle, or what. I tried some other things as well, but couldn't cure it.

In the early C&G days there was a problem with my older Drives walking out because of a rotating shaft. Also had a sliding shaft. The replacement spline shafts solved those problems though.

Quote:
What do you mean "didn't feel they [bungee fixes] were secure enough" ? Did they continue to pop out despite the fix or did you perhaps feel that the solution was just a bit makeshift or something ?
The Spectra line locking system never failed, but was too easy to inadvertently unlatch. I also felt the exposed line was not as clean a solution as I wanted. I really like the V-2 C&G screw -- looks clean, no removable parts to lose, 100% worry free, takes 2 seconds to engage/release, almost looks factory installed.
Image
With the lower screw mount (Version 1) it was easier to make, but the cover plate had to be left off and the screw was harder to reach -- other than that it worked fine.

I think your bungee is worth a try. If it works, you save a lot of effort; if it doesn't, you still have other options. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:52 am 
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Hi Guys,
Stobbo, was wondering if you have found an answer to the problem?
I have disassembled, lubed & adjusted the Mirage drive as per Roadrunners
earlier posts.
I then removed the RH C&G mounting, but found there's no adjustments under there.
Hope to get out on the weekend to see in the problem still persists..
will keep posted,
Cheers,
montedane.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Monte, Regret I haven't been able to try it since - weather has not been conducive to kayaking for well over a week & no sign of an immediate change. Will let you know as soon as I have done a proper test though...


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