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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:32 pm 
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I have a Hobie-17 I would like to race, but my Neil Pryde sail needs to have a panel replaced due to a large burn hole. The sailmaker who will do the work says the mylar/taffeta cloth is obsolete and I should ask the rules gurus what currently available laminate should be used to keep the sail legal.
SO: What laminate sailcloth should be used to repair a H17 sail?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Unfortunately, you can't replace a whole panel and have a class legal sail. You're better off replacing the sail for racing anyway. The Neil Pride sails are old and uncompetitive now.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:03 pm 
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I can't afford a new sail. Not this year. My other sail is not a Hobie sail. I must race with my Neil Pryde sail if I am going to race with the fleet.
The rules say a sail can be repaired, but the extent of the allowed repair is not stated. How big can a patch be, and be legal?
The sailmaker said he could just patch the hole, but the whole panel should be replaced because of delamination.
One way or the other - I am back to the original question - what sailcloth to use.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:09 am 
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MBounds wrote:
Unfortunately, you can't replace a whole panel and have a class legal sail. You're better off replacing the sail for racing anyway. The Neil Pride sails are old and uncompetitive now.


Matt,

Can you point to where in the rules that is defined?

I don't see anything that addresses what constitutes a legal repair. It makes sense that you ought to be able to make a proper repair, never mind whether if it is done to an old and obsolete sail.

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Jack Woehrle
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H20 #287 "Tallahassee Lassie" (down in FLA)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:38 am 
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OK, I'm losing it. I should know better than to shoot from the hip (and reply to a post from my phone in the middle of an accounting class). I could swear I read that somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can remember where. It's certainly not in the rules, and hasn't been going back to 1971 (yes, I have a set of class rules from 1971). It might have been a rules interpretation published in the Hotline at one point.

You are correct, Jack. There is no prohibition in the class rules against replacing an entire panel of the sail and have it still be class legal other than the general prohibition of "if it's not mentioned in the rules, it's not class legal." However, replacing it with a different cloth is almost certainly not, since that could be construed as a "speed device."

Therefore, my suggestion to 17Novice is - get your dealer to get a scrap of 17 sail material from Hobie Cat and give it to your sailmaker to make the repair with. Any other material will have different physical properties and may cause problems with the repair.

In the mean time, I'm going to ask Erik Olsen, the chair of the Class Rules Committee to comment on this. And I'm going to go through the Hotlines to find what I think I read before I go completely nuts.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:47 am 
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The only rule that I would see as potentially relevant would be General Rule #1:

Any alterations to the hull form, construction, equipment, spars, sails or running rigging, as supplied by the builder except as is specifically authorized by these rules, are a breach of these rules, both in spirit and in substance, and are prohibited.

Replacing a whole panel, particularly with a different type of cloth, could be considered an alteration. That being said, I HIGHLY doubt someone would protest you for fixing a panel in a 20 year old sail...it just isn't going to happen. The class is way too small for people to play those games.

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:06 am 
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Laminate sailcloth is expensive, panels are big. The unit of measure by which Hobie sells sailcloth is - 1 sail.
It looks like there are 3 open questions:
1. What sailcloth are our sails made of?
2. May any mylar/dacron 2 ply laminate be used for repairs?
3. May whole panels be replaced?
I agree with SM a protest is highly unlikely, but it would be good to know the answers.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:51 pm 
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Location: San Diego
Neil Pryde Hobie 17 sails were made of Japanese Mylar (Tejin?). You can find similar cloth from several sail cloth manufactures. If your sail was delaminating, the repair is just temporary as the other panels are not far behind in falling apart. Repair the sail as needed, race it and don't worry about any protest. You are not trying to skirt any rules, the sail needs repair, so repair it and move on. Any cloth the sail maker uses will be fine. I hope the repaired sail holds together as long as you need it to, until you can afford the next one.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:06 pm 
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michaellove wrote:
Laminate sailcloth is expensive, panels are big. The unit of measure by which Hobie sells sailcloth is - 1 sail.
It looks like there are 3 open questions:
1. What sailcloth are our sails made of?
2. May any mylar/dacron 2 ply laminate be used for repairs?
3. May whole panels be replaced?
I agree with SM a protest is highly unlikely, but it would be good to know the answers.


I have asked several very good sailmakers whether they could make a used sail better than a new sail by replacing a panel. All said no and HELL no.

The best you could hope for would be to bring it back to an old sail.

So what would be the point of not allowing justifiable repairs, even if more than one panel is replaced? You would never get something that would be as good as a new sail from Hobie.

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Jack Woehrle
Wave #100
H20 #287 "Tallahassee Lassie" (down in FLA)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:21 am 
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Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Last year, I replaced the main & jib on my 1989 SX18....
In those years, Hobie sold only one colour combination,
the typical 1989 Blue and dark pink colours...

I now have a wonderful set of Pentex custom (not race legal) sails from Chip at Whirlwind. However, I only do local club races.....

The point is, if you want some very old and mostly delaminated sail cloth....
and you are prepared to pay for shipping...I'd like to see the old sails go to a good home. I am in Ottawa Canada, so there will be customs clearing costs as well.

P S anyone need an old set of H18 SX battens? Or a complete set of SX18 wings, which is another story altogether.

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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