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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:09 am 
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After doing all the research, I really want an Outback. It will mainly be used for fishing. I already have an outfitter and a sport, bought about 5 years ago.
I have a question about the new Outback rudder.
The Outfiitter and the Sport have two different rudder folding systems, and I really like the Outfitter folding rudder, it's a much better build, much sturdier, and easier to manupulate. What's the rudder like on the Outback compared to Outfitter and Sport?

Also, at 28 kilos, can you folks car top it on your own?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:06 am 
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The outback being my first and only hobie I cannot compare the rudder system to other boats. The outback rudder functions well with only the occasional hangup on the hook for the hold down bungee. I did upgrade it to the sailing rudder very quickly because it allows for so much quicker of a turn. I cartop mine on the top of my buick lesabre all the time. It is heavy and awkward but if you have a strong back you can do it. I've even carried it as far as 50-60 yards to a dock. Balanced it on top of my shoulder on its side. I don't own wheels because in all other instances I have been able to pull up to the docks or drag the boat on clean grass surfaces.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:39 am 
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to be more specific, the Sport doesn't have the twist and stow rudder that the Outfitter has, it's just a raise/lower machanism. Does the Outback have the twist and stow, or just the raise/lower rudder?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:28 am 
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I'm answering my own question. It looks like all Hobie Kayaks now have the twist and stow rudders.

What do I need to know about these rudders?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Twist and stow rudder is the best way to go. I car top the outback and I am 61 years old. or should I say young? Good Luck


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:18 am 
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can I retrofit twist and stow in place of a lower/raise on a Sport?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:32 am 
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Location: Saint Albans Bay, Vermont
There is no retrofit from the old to the new. The ends of the kayak are molded differently.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Everything is a trade off. I have just "upgraded" to a brand new Outback from an older model. The older rudder on the outbacks just moved up and down and, in very shallow water or heavy weeds, was far superior to the lift and stow rudder in that it just lifted up when you went over something very shallow, or lifting it up released the weeds or released it from the weeds and you could keep moving forward. The new rudder system causes the kayak to come to a complete halt and also moves it sideways when you raise the rudder to release it from heavy weeds. Also the new Outback, with a slightly flatter bottom (giving it more initial stability), needs a larger rudder than the old model. Hobie should sell the Outback with a larger rudder included instead of charging extra for one. With the "standard" rudder, it is impossible for the Outback to be a hands free peddling experience as you have to keep one hand on the rudder control at all times. Maybe a larger rudder will correct that and Hobie should give one to all Outback users instead of charging for it. The older Outback had a different hull design and tracked better even with the smaller rudder and one could have both hands free to eat or cast, fish, and peddle at the same time.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Location: Sarasota FL
Amen on the 'newer' stow and go design forcing the kayak to veer if you try to raise it while moving to get rid of collected weeds.

The square 'notch' on the front side of the blade also catches weeds.

Dear Dear Hobie,
Would like to see that notch gone and an optional rudder blade that was more swept back so that it was less prone to catch weeds in weedy water. The swept back profile would also allow you to shimmy the rudder a bit to help weeds slip off the swept-back profile, instead of the current solution which is to raise the rudder.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:57 am 
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Re: "With the "standard" rudder, it is impossible for the Outback to be a hands free peddling experience as you have to keep one hand on the rudder control at all times. Maybe a larger rudder will correct that and Hobie should give one to all Outback users instead of charging for it. The older Outback had a different hull design and tracked better even with the smaller rudder and one could have both hands free to eat or cast, fish, and peddle at the same time."

Well, I now have the larger (sailing) rudder and it helps a little bit, but the new Outback still does not let you move and fish (or eat or drink) hands free. The "hands free" feature was lost with the new mold and I have discovered that it is a hull design that does not allow "hands free" peddling.

The older Outbacks had a long area in the water for the rudder to work with. The new design has a flatter bottom and the only real sideways control is way up at the verticle bow (front) down in the water. It acts like a skag on a surf board, only it is on the wrong end. Imagine paddling a surf board backwards with the skag down in the water in the front. That is the problem with the new Outback design and why many have said you can not go hands free with the Outback. Yes, I now have to keep my left hand on the rudder control almost all the time, even with the larger rudder, and that sucks.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
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Location: Escondido
photo01a wrote:
The older Outbacks had a long area in the water for the rudder to work with. The new design has a flatter bottom and the only real sideways control is way up at the verticle bow (front) down in the water. It acts like a skag on a surf board, only it is on the wrong end. Imagine paddling a surf board backwards with the skag down in the water in the front. That is the problem with the new Outback design and why many have said you can not go hands free with the Outback. Yes, I now have to keep my left hand on the rudder control almost all the time, even with the larger rudder, and that sucks.
photo01a wrote:
My new 2012 model does not track straight at all and I have to keep my left hand on the steering control so it is not "hands free" peddling at all. Also the older model will turn in a much tighter circle, again because of the long round bottom in the water, where the flatter new model does not have anything for the rudder to push against except the verticle bow way up in the front.
You should be getting rock solid directional stability and turning out of your newer Outback with the large rudder. Remember, with your fins down (or in motion), the boat will pivot about the fins, not the bow, and the turn rate improves markedly.

You appear to have the classic symptoms of slack rudder lines -- poor turning and poor directional stability. If the directional control lines have slack in them, the rudder will not stay in place and the boat will not hold course reliably. Also, slack reduces rudder deflection, therefore turning is limited. It's an easy fix and should make a big difference for you. Here's the procedure I use:

In order to obtain full rudder authority and deflection, the directional control lines should be taut when the rudder is down and locked, and centered. You need a #2 Phillips head screwdriver to make the adjustments.

First, deflect your tiller or rudder control full left and right, and [using a cardboard template or bevel square (shown)] check the deflection angles at the rudder in both directions.
Image
After re-centering the rudder, any slack in the line should be first removed on the side that has the least deflection. Fine tune the lines accordingly to obtain equal rudder deflection from the tiller. Do not make your adjustments based on pushing the rudder back and forth, as this is not how the rudder is operated and will not register correct deflection -- use the rudder control!

Remember that the hull expands and contracts with temperature. You don't want to set them piano wire tight -- just pull the slack out. Hopefully this will make your Outback handle much better! 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Location: Escondido
sunday wrote:
Dear Dear Hobie,
Would like to see that notch gone and an optional rudder blade that was more swept back so that it was less prone to catch weeds in weedy water. The swept back profile would also allow you to shimmy the rudder a bit to help weeds slip off the swept-back profile, instead of the current solution which is to raise the rudder.
You can do this yourself quite easily with a hacksaw, file and sand paper. The picture below shows several "custom" rudders easily cut from the large rudder. The core is solid so there is no back filling or special treatment necessary. All you need to do is mark your desired line with chalk, slice the notch and leading edge off and sweep back as desired. Using the file and sand paper, reshape the leading edge. If you expose any small air bubbles, you can leave them or fill them with epoxy. You might actually improve the design!
Image

You may wonder how well these rudders work. For most purposes, the large rudder is overkill -- it can lose some area and still work perfectly well. I would recommend retaining as much length as possible for best efficiency and bite. For non-sailing, all the rudders pictured have excellent authority (except the standard rudder on right sitting on the sailing rudder); for sailing, all but the left hand rudder are more than up to the task with the small Hobie sail.

You may have noticed, the right hand uncut large rudder is just what you want Hobie to do for you. Well, you may be in luck obtaining one without having to cut your own. That was the original large rudder; the design was changed in 2007 to improve rudder "balance". This is important for sailing where the rudder takes quite a side load and, after all, sailing is what spawned the large rudder. For non-sailing, balance is not so important though.

Hobie used to keep some of these original rudders to use as an option with the inflatable series since the notch design didn't fit those boats. You'd have to check with your dealer to see if they are still available -- they don't show in the catalog.

At least you have some options! 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:40 pm
Posts: 515
If you are a fisherman like me, one major benefit of the sailing rudder on the Outback is when using a down rigger......the additional drag of the cable, weight, line and lure is negated by the larger sailing rudder.
If you used the standard rudder, the Outback will not track as desired...it will "pull" to the side the outrigger hardware is deployed...the deeper you down rig, the more the pull off course......add some wind and you quickly give up using the down rigger. :!:

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