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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
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Location: Palm City, Florida
Thanks everyone for you're concern and support, I'm OK that's the main thing and my boat can be repaired. My TI was made in later part of 2011. I try to go sailing at least once a week, so that's a lot of use. Other than when my screw socket broke, this is about the worst thing that's ever happened.

I hope Hobie sends me the new (all the way through bearing plate, double weld replacement). I already have the old one off and I'm sure I can make the repairs myself when the new one arrives.

Yes Mark when this happens it is quite a shock. Not like reading about it happening to someone else.

As disturbing it was seeing my trusted mast falling backwards and the bearing plate ripping off the crossbar I remember thinking to myself right afterwards: "Oh... I know what just happened, my bearing plate welds broke, it's OK, it's going to be alright. I read about this happening to other people several months ago". This was a reassuring thought to have right after a very anxious moment. Yeah and I was pissed and angry too.

Being able to throw out my anchor and stop moving was good. Having a friend close by to come to my aid was tremendous. If I had been in the ocean or sailing alone, it would have made this accident much harder to deal with.

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Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am
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Location: Plant City, Fl.
Matt,

Whats the part number for the new xbar with the two welds? Is it 79531201 XBAR FWD ASSY. I need to order one. Hobie replaced my hull after the mast cup broke and the xbar slid 1.5" to the side. But the xbar was not replaced and I will order the new one today if I know the right number.
Image

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“Remember life is short- eat dessert first.”
The world is 70% water – So that means we should spend 70% more time sailing than mowing lawns!
Larry


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:05 am 
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Location: Palm City, Florida
Larry,
As far as I know and according to the Spring 2012 Catalog (page49) with the red arrow pointing to the picture on the Tandem Island of this part, it is listed as: 79531201 XBAR FWD ASSY

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Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am
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Location: Plant City, Fl.
Thanks sun E sailor, I try to get it ordered today. The week end is coming fast and I want to be ready.

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“Remember life is short- eat dessert first.”
The world is 70% water – So that means we should spend 70% more time sailing than mowing lawns!
Larry


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:44 am
Posts: 159
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
It was shocking to watch SeS's boat suddenly stop and his mast fall into the water. Luckily, SeS did not get injured.

The same thing happened to my TI several months ago while I was sailing with my 3 yr old son sitting in the front seat. If my wife would have witnessed this failure, she might not have allowed me take our children sailing on the TI for some time.

Sailing with the defective forward crossbar places the sailors in unnecessary risk of injury from the falling mast. Hobie, how many TIs remain in circulation with the defective forward crossbar?

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Marc K
2010 Hobie Tandem Island
Boynton Beach, FL


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
larryhts:
Looking at your picture, that is exactly what my defective X-bar looked like (that Hobie replaced). If you notice the gray line around the end, that's a crack in the weld (created during welding, 'not from use'), and reduces the strength of the joint 50%. I'm assuming yours is an earlier model like my original X-bar was (mine was an early 2010), and in my case the crack was in the X-bar when it came from the factory. After about a year of use, my Xbar had to be replaced.


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Location: Plant City, Fl.
sun E sailer, you were right “ 79531201 XBAR FWD ASSY” is the new one for the TI. I just bought one from the Tackle Shack. It has the double weld. They said they would get with Hobie and see if mine is covered or not but I wanted it for this weekend.
Image

Fusioneng, Mine was fine until the cup broke free in the hull. Hobie replaced the hull but not the xbar. Just want to be safe for my passengers, children, girlfriends and friends.
Image
Image

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“Remember life is short- eat dessert first.”
The world is 70% water – So that means we should spend 70% more time sailing than mowing lawns!
Larry


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
mkrawats wrote:
Hobie, how many TIs remain in circulation with the defective forward crossbar?



Hmmm.....no response from Hobie. :?

sun E sailor wrote:
My TI was made in later part of 2011.

Thanks sEs. That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling either as my X-Bar was replaced in January 2011. As it had to come all the way downunder I'm guessing at best it was manufactured late 2010.
So I'll ask again:
Is this failure an occasional manufacturing defect due to poor welding technique or a design fault? Is it just a matter of time before all early design crossbars fail?


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:10 am 
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Location: Palm City, Florida
fusioneng,

:!: EXCELLENT OBSERVATION :!:
Thank you so much for pointing this out.

Before mine broke it looked exactly like the picture that larryhts posted of his original crossbar. I definitely remember seeing a "grey line" along the outside edge of the welded area, as well as some paint flaking off. I (wrongly) assumed that this was just normal wear and that if a "real crack" ever developed, it would be obvious for me to see. If I had closely examined the weld with a magnifying glass, or had your expertise, I would have seen the crack and replaced my crossbar long ago.

Now with this knowledge people who have an early production run boat can at least know what to look for!

Matt's last comments regarding when he thought the new crossbars were being installed were this:
Quote:
Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILUREPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:16 am
Yes, the revised bearing plate through the beam / weld system is in production for the TI. Been a month or so they say.

If it's possible now for Hobie to determine and tell us which boats were likely to have the defective crossbars installed based on their Hull #'s, then coupled with a visual inspection, these people could contact their local dealer and get the newly designed ones.

Hobie is sending a new one out to me this week, Thank you very much guys :) and I hope to be back out on the water this weekend.

Correction: I thought my TI was made in late 2011 but according to my Hull #: US-HCCP0887J011 it was manufactured in October 2010. I can't find the link right now regarding the proper identification of Hull Numbers, but I know the following information is correct to when my boat was made:

HCC is the Manufacturing Company (Hobie Cat Company)
P............ Model (Tandem Island)
0887........ Serial Number (0887)
J............ Month of Manufacture (October)
0............ Year of Manufacture (2010)
11........... Model Year (2011)

What's frustrating is that it's impossible to see the crack that was on my original crossbar now that it's broken. Maybe the engineers at Hobie can learn something from this photo and I'd be happy to mail it back to them as well.
Image

As I mentioned previously, I was lucky. If the information that we're putting together in this post helps anyone from having the same experience I had last Saturday and potentially avoiding a serious accident, then I will be happy.

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Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9059
Location: Oceanside, California
I'll ask Jacques (support) and Brendan (warranty) to have a look at this thread. As I mentioned elsewhere... I don't get to review forums as I have in past years. Jacques and Brendan have taken on that roll for us.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:34 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Hobie Cat: Oceanside, CA
There have been very few failures of the forward crossbar. We have only seen it on a few very heavily used kayaks, all of which frequently sail in high winds. I'm not sure how many boats were sold before the change but it was a lot. If sun E sailor had 887 from Oct 2010, there were about seven or eight more months of production before the change. As soon as we heard the first failure, we began creating the newer crossbar, which has proven itself in very rough conditions by a number of sailors. We have had recalls on products in the past, but this has not been something that has required all crossbars to be swapped out. If there are cracks in the crossbar, visit your dealer and have them file a warranty claim.

There are a lot of forum topics and not many people looking at them so we often won't see a question directed at us for some days, or ever. If you need something answered, PM or email us to give us a heads up about a thread.

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:32 pm
Posts: 86
Location: tampa, fl
AARGGH,
You made me look!
Port side underneath. Small crack starting. Matt?


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:32 pm
Posts: 86
Location: tampa, fl
Hull 743. Arrghhh.


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2026
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Thanks for the response Matt and Brendan. Based on previous quick responses to questions I may have wrongly assumed you monitored these forums more closely.
Now that we have a bit more info on this problem I'll be closely inspecting the TI X-Bar.

Fusionengine,
Thanks Bob for your explanation. I'll be looking for that gray line for sure!

sEs,
Thanks for clarifying the model of your boat. Knowing it's an early model fits in with what Hobie are saying.


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I think I need to clarify my earlier observations. The cracked weld on my original TI X-bar came that way from the factory, and I am reasonably certain, the welding (manufacturing) problem I was describing was only limited to the first few hundred units sold. My original X-bar was a very early model from Spring 2010. The replacement x-bar I recieved in summer 2011 was the same design (single weld) but the welding process was greatly improved.

Beyond those first few hundred units I doubt very much anyone is going to break their X-bar. If everyone remembers my Ultimate Tandem Island project, that boat had around 260 sq ft of sail area, and I sailed quite often in very adverse conditions (ie.. high winds, heavy seas, etc) and never had any difficulties with the replacement X-bar (with the single weld) in the thousand plus miles I put on the boat with the replacement X-bar.
I'm just trying to set everyone at ease, if your TI has the single weld forward X-bar it's not about to fall off or anything. It is just a good idea to look at the weld once in a while, and look for cracks on the ends (like pictured previous in this post). If they appear 'like in the picture', then it would be a good idea to inform your dealer.

Hope this clarifies what I said.


Last edited by fusioneng on Wed May 16, 2012 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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