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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:56 am 
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Hi,

I have owned a brand new TI for two weeks now. I have not taken it out on the lake yet. WHAT???? Why not??! My cottage is in northern Michigan. The water temperature is in the 50's. Air temperature in the 60's.

I have never sailed before in my life. I read on wikipedia that in 50 degree water you'll die of hypothermia in under 1 hour and an experienced kayaker died last weekend on Omena Bay from hypothermia. And until memorial day the lake doesn't even really have any powerboats on it.

So, what's my question? Well, should I buy a wetsuit, dry suit or spray shirt and pants? For the most part, I will be sailing during a twelve week period from June through sept. 1st. The air temperature will generally run from the high 60s through the high 80s but will generally be mid 70s with the water temperature fairly cold.

I'm super confused as to what kind of gear I need. If the goal is to not die from hypothermia I would guess I should sport a dry suit. But won't that be super uncomfortable. Also, i don't plan on sailing in February or March whe the water is liquid ice. Wet suit or spray gear? I don't have any idea what would be better?

Help?


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:23 am 
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Location: San Diego
I'd say a dry suit for the cold season and spray gear for the rest of the year. In the summer obviously you won't need nothin' depending on which lake you go to.

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 Post subject: protective wear
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:36 am 
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Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I wear a dry suit if the water temp is below 60F and a 1/8inch wetsuit if the water temp is between 60-70F. I use a spray skirt on my TI most times. I don't like to get spray on my face for hours at a time regardless of temperature. If the waves are really choppy and the temp is fairly warm I wear light-summer weight breathable 'rain gear'. Only if the air temps are higher than 80F do I just wear a long-sleeve shirt and shorts.
If you were to get dumped and had to stay in the water for any extended period...even if the water does not feel that chilly, you can develop hypothermia.
The Mayo Clinic has done some studies...for an average person (not swimming, etc.)...1 hour in 50F will generally cause death, water temperatures below 80F for extended periods will cause the onset of hypothermia.

I get chilled and sun-burned easily so I tend to wear long sleeved shirts and ALWAYS a PFD.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:16 am 
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Location: Perth West Australia
leelanauX wrote:
Hi,
If the goal is to not die from hypothermia I would guess I should sport a dry suit. But won't that be super uncomfortable. Help?


Ther must be some suits that are suitable and comfortable for kayaking.

I SCUBA dive in a drysuit when in the south of Australia and winter. Water temp is not as cold as you are talking but I can be in for 3 hours.

The nice thing about the modern dry suits, is that you can have a thin suit from compressed neoprene or thin trilaminate then wear thick layers under it for cold conditions or a thin layer when it becomes a little warmer. You wil still stay alive if you fall in and you are dry (just don't drink a big coffee before you zip up as it is hard to relieve yourselfin a sealed suit).

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:33 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Not hard just messy LOL

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:58 am 
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Location: Delaware Coast
leelanauX wrote:
.....I would guess I should sport a dry suit. But won't that be super uncomfortable?

We use Kokatat Lightweight Paddling Suits. They are "semi" dry suits. The difference between a full dry suit is these is that they have a neoprene neck instead of a latex gasket.

They are very comfortable. Campmor had the best prices when we bought but their $100 off sale is over now I think.


Last edited by Herbaldew on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Why not get a set of breathable chest high waders? You can vary the heat insulation by what you wear underneath, and you can keep out the water up top with whatever outer garment the weather dictates

This is a hugely cheaper solution than a dry suit, and every bit as good save for total immersion (which I believe is a low probability with an Island)
http://www.caddiswaders.com/

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 Post subject: chest waders
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I fly fish in chest waders. They are great unless you slip and fall. Then they try to take you to the bottom. You will need a line connecting you to the TI, so they can recover your body.


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 Post subject: Re: chest waders
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Location: Perth West Australia
TIDALWAVE wrote:
I fly fish in chest waders. They are great unless you slip and fall. Then they try to take you to the bottom. You will need a line connecting you to the TI, so they can recover your body.


Tidalwave,
(now I am not having a go at you but trying to dispel a myth) , I have heard this line before that, the waders sink you.
• However, if the waders themselves are not heavier than water, they do not sink;
• The water that fills them is not heavier than the water around you, it does not sink you; and
• if you are wearing buoyant clothing or a PDF, then the waders filling with water simply cannot take you to the bottom.

Without the PDF you could easily have air in the waders move up to the feet end and make your feet more buoyant than your head end and that would not be so good.

• So if you are properly kitted out, the worst that can happen, if the waders are loose and have a lot of space to fill with water, is that they fill up making them like a big water filled bag. This admittedly would make it really difficult to swim back to the river bank or to the AI if you went in.
So yes your idea of a tether strap to the Island is not a bad idea.

But if you have the top of the waders properly done up, wear a wader belt around the middle to stop too much water going in and you wear an appropriate PDF which you should do anyway if you are out on a kayak.
Then you simply cannot sink.

For fly fishing, there must be other alternatives to a bulky PDF that would still help prevent you from filling up and floating head down in the cold river.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Location: Virginia Beach, VA
In my Kayak fishing days I used waders. They are inexpensive but over time I found out that they had two limitations. 1) previously indicated is that if you fall in they will cause problems and can fill up with water. 2) The waders do not have a relief zipper making it much harder to go when nature calls.

When it is cooler or cold I use a dry suit with appropriate layers. You can add layers. In this year's Everglades Challenge I lived in my Dry Suit for 5 days. During the day just a single layer of light clothes. Stay away from cotton. Once wet it will not keep you warm. Before it got dark I would put on wool and fleece layers. If the weather is not rough you can vent through the front entry zipper or occasionally pull the collar open.

During the summer I carry a two piece light splash jacket and pants. My waders remain hanging in the garage.

I always carry a dry bag with some clothes even in the summer time. It is better to have than have not. A couple of years ago I got hit with some hypothermia in August in North Carolina. Too tired, too wet for too many fours. I crashed and went to sleep in my wet clothes. Hour later a could not stop shaking. Stay dry, stay warm...

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:04 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Geordie, I am with you on the myth about waders sending you to the bottom. Maybe Mythbusters should add this to their repertoire LOL

I can certainly see that getting out of the water with full waders would be almost impossible, but I would envisage undoing the shoulder straps and leaving the waders behind in that scenario.

Due to needing to keep compression stockings dry, I need to either wear waders or a dry suit. Here in the temperate zone between Sydney & Brisbane, a dry suit would be stifling I think, plus of course a dry suit is relatively big $$$$s

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Location: tampa, fl
Kokatat dry suit in Gortex is the best thing you can buy. I have been called many things for using it in warmer Florida conditions but just dress under in lighter clothes and splash if you get a bit warm. WIth water as cold as you have in the great lakes I would not consider anything but a drysuit. It is so nice to pull up to the beach or campsite slip out of the suit and you're dry and warm. The Gortex keeps you dry inside as well.
I take it with me on all trips but it stays in the bag once the water gets in the mid 80s and the air is the same. Wet is nice then.


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 Post subject: chest waders
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 5:40 am 
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Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I tried to shorten my comments on chest waders. You are correct that with a good PFD chest waders won't 'take you to the bottom'. However, I have slipped and fallen with waders on in a river. The only reason I was able to get out was because I could stand on the bottom with my head above the water.
I have never filled my waders with a hose while I was in them and measured the added weight. But I know that I would never be able to pull myself up onto my TI with full waders.
We were discussing hypothermia. With a PFD on and full waders, and not being able to climb back on my TI...I know that I wouldn't last long if the water temp was below 60F.
I have practiced climbing back into the TI with my dry suit on...even tho' it floats, it was difficult to get back aboard . No hypothermia, just mild exhaustion.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:10 am 
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Having done the wetsuit route, I personally think that the drysuit is more comfortable and will give you more bang for the buck. Wetsuits are specific to certain conditions and don't deal well with changing conditions. I was always too hot or too cold in mine and usually on the same day.

The drysuit gives you the option of extending the season quite a bit if you want.

Cheers,

J

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:28 am 
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Location: Perth West Australia
Yes I imagine it would be pretty hard to climb out onto the TI with waders full of water. Do they make closer fitting waders out of wetsuit material that don't fill up with so much water?

I have climbed in and out of my TI quite a few times with the drysuit on and find it pretty easy. I sometimes go diving from my TI. It is really easy with fins on. Harder with no fins on, so I pull myself up on the rear arma and do a belly flop style entry into the TI rear seat (sort of like a seal, but not as graceful).

My diving drysuit is a bit like a wetsuit, it is only 5mm thick neoprene. If I dive with no undergarment other than a rash suit then it is not more buoyant than a 5mm wetsuit but because the legs tend to float up, it is quite tricky to stay vertical in the water to climb out.

If I was in really cold waters like northern Michigan, I think I would get a proper kayaking dry suit. The dive suit is really hard to get in and out as it is a rear shoulder entry zip.

Tonyscot,
There must be some better waders about that would keep you dry. Gortex sound like the go with the ability to breathe moisture out but not let water in that would keep your legs dry.

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