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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:53 am 
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bsee wrote:
I am surprised no one has recommended two boats yet. You have three people. A solo and a tandem would allow all three to float, and you could pick the right one for fewer than three participants. Of course, cost would be way higher, but it could be a future goal.

As far as an Outback goes, that's a big boat for a 130 lb human. I know the older models wouldn't have worked well for you, but I don't know if you are heavy enough to settle a newer Outback hull fully. If I were your size, I'd be thinking of a Sport or Revolution for a solo boat, depending upon my need for speed.

I'm no expert, so i would try a demo as you intend to use the boat before plopping down the cash.

-bob


I used to have an 80lb canoe that was 12'-14' long, which I regularly loaded on the top of an SUV by myself. It isn't very convenient for last minute trips, or when you are in a hurry. The speed of a canoe was way tooooooo slowwwwww for me. LOL

I want something fast. :)


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Location: Auckland NZ
Re the original subject: "Oasis or Outfitter?" - Oasis any day. I had an Outfitter, my buddy still has his Oasis: it is a much better boat.

Re cartopping heavy kayaks - I too have lower back problems and had to find a better way - since I did I have had no problems whatsoever cartopping kayaks, even ones that are loaded up with gear. Here's how:

Get yourself bars and cradles, cover the back of the car and the rear cradles with a thick rug (to protect the paintwork and to prevent the cradles from gripping the kayak), lift one end of the kayak up first onto the back of the car, then lift the other end and slide the kayak forwards over the rug-covered rear cradles into the front cradles, remove the rug, tie down, drive off happy. If you have a saloon (sedan) rather than an estate (stationwagon) you can get extra bars which slide out to the side of the main roof bars and will allow you to do most of the heavy lifting one end at a time, though in a slightly different way.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Search around these boards regarding kayak speed and you will find that the Revolution 13 gets a good thumbs up among the "smaller" boats, especially compared to the Outback. The Outback isn't that much longer than a Sport, and it is quite wide. The width can really suck speed. If you want fast, an Outback isn't it. There are people around here who fish the Adventure model for the speed advantage, but I think the handling of the Revolution provides an advantage unless you're really covering distance in big water. I am also thinking about your 130 pound weight. Under-loading some boats can impact performance as much as over-loading.

I believe that the guy with the Adventure also mentioned carrying a small child with him (not when fishing) on occasion. I wouldn't want to fish with a child in a boat where there wasn't a proper, reasonably comfortable seat for them.

As far as stability goes, you can add the side floats to stabilize the narrower boats if you really feel the need. They can be set up to remain just out of the water, so they stop you from going over without having to push them through water when you are traveling. In general, you sit pretty low in a kayak, especially as compared to a canoe, and tend to be more stable as a result.

Just as a side note, by the specs, the Oasis does look like the better tandem, though I haven't been in either of those boats. No substitute for direct personal experience.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 5:17 pm 
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bsee wrote:
The Outback isn't that much longer than a Sport, and it is quite wide. The width can really suck speed. If you want fast, an Outback isn't it.


Does this mean the Sport is quicker than the Outback?


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:16 pm 
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hacktorious wrote:
Does this mean the Sport is quicker than the Outback?
No. Here's an overall rundown:

In general, longer/narrower is faster, with length usually being the dominate determinant. Shorter is more maneuverable, usually easier to transport and store.

Hobie makes 3 different series of hard shell Mirage Drive kayaks.

1. Adventure/Revolution 13/Revolution 11/Oasis (tandem). These are usually faster, quieter, easier to paddle, easier to operate against wind and chop.

2. Outback/Sport/Outfitter (tandem). These are slab-sided to accommodate the fishing trays, usually have better initial stability (more stable feel), extra rod holders; more working surfaces. Can be noisy with hull slap, especially in chop, harder to paddle.

3. Pro Angler 14/Pro Angler 12 (not out yet). Designed for fishing, easy to stand, lots of accommodation for rod and tackle storage. Speeds comparable to the Outback. Heavy but fun.

Excluding the PAs, here are some of the individual characteristics.

Sport: lightest, easiest to load and store, great maneuverability. Compact, but good little fisherman. One of our prior members, apalach (pics shown here), loved his Sport for fishing. Look him up (search feature) for excellent pics and tips! Sport is the slowest, smallest capacity of the Hobie hard shells, but can "fast" cruise at about 4.5 MPH (for reference)
Image Image

Revolution 11: Almost as light, maneuverable, easy to store and transport as the Sport. Quiet, efficient (has a sweet spot (easy cruising) at about 4 to 4.5 MPH). Runs well against wind and chop. Fun, responsive boat and newest current model. Like other models, has room to add ram mounts, etc. Cockpit larger than Sport, but slightly smaller than others -- plenty of room for most. Reference fast cruise at about 4.75 MPH.

Outback: Like the Sport in design, but larger, heavier. Lots of room, very solid boat. Standard size cockpit. Very good turning. A little slap happy in chop. Reference speed about same as Revo 11, but without the sweet spot.

Revolution 13: Probably the best all around boat, good for fishing, cruising, sailing. Reasonably quiet, good in wind and chop, good turning, standard cockpit, plenty of room and capacity. Good choice for ocean launching. Good fast cruise speed at about 5.1.

Adventure: King of speed, smoothest ride, quietest, best in rough weather, open water. Slightly larger cockpit than others. Has daggerboard option for sailing and can convert to Adventure Island trimaran. Relatively poor turning but very good tracking. Fastest Hobie kayak, Reference speed about 5.4 MPH.

Oasis and Outfitter share characteristics of their families. Longer Oasis has good speed, bow hatch vs. Outfitter. Both very stable, have tons of load capacity. Reference speeds about 5.0 MPH and 4.7 MPH.

Another choice for you might be the Pro Angler 12, but no reviews or test rides yet.

Aside from the boats, there are 3 important accessories. 1. Large rudder (if not equipped) improves handling, maneuverability on all models, especially at very low speeds. Low cost makes this a great choice. 2. Turbo fins for performance. These add speed, torque, efficiency for greater range. Not quite as torquey but better priced are ST fins. 3. Cart, not inexpensive, but indispensable for launching and handling.

Note "reference" times are with Turbo fins, and are for relative comparisons only. Actual speeds vary greatly depending on conditions, individual differences, etc. etc.

Looking at your priorities, types of use, water, weather, fishing style, range, etc, each of the boats has its advantages. Thankfully, Hobie has lots of choices! 8)


Last edited by Roadrunner on Fri May 25, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:37 pm 
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So, Roadrunner, what are your thoughts on a 130 lb driver in an Outback? I know it would have been bad in the older Outback hull shape, but is that enough weight to settle the newer hulls?


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:05 pm 
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I don't think it should be an issue. There is a local gal that weighs probably 100 - 110 lb who really enjoyed her Outback -- hadn't mentioned any concerns at all. 8)


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Wow Roadrunner, thanks for all the wonderful info!!! :D :D :D The rev 11 sounds great! The sport sounds great too! LOL Too many decisions. I think the rev 11 may be a great high speed fishing boat. Is the rev 11 stable enough to stand on? I would not think it is, but i figured I'd anyways. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Really, it's just the pro angler models that you can stand on. You might be small enough to try it on an Outback. In any case, if you buy the outriggers (called the sidekick AMA kit), you should be okay to stand in any of the boats. Take a look at the kit in the accessories section of the current catalog.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:21 pm 
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bsee wrote:
Really, it's just the pro angler models that you can stand on.
Well, yes and no. The new (2011 and newer) Oasis makes a pretty decent standing platform -- plenty of stability and the cockpit deck is flat and affords some foot movement.
Image

The problem with most kayaks is they are so light that they slip around on the water easily. With most cockpit wells confining for the feet, there is no good place to catch your balance. One thing that can help is the use of a "Steady Stick" (precursor to the PA's new "H Bar"). It consists of a broom stick inserted in the mast receiver (not as strong as the H Bar and not endorsed by Hobie)
Image

The Sidekick is a good idea also to resolve the "tippimess" problem with the smaller kayaks.

hacktorious wrote:
I think the rev 11 may be a great high speed fishing boat. Is the rev 11 stable enough to stand on? I would not think it is, but i figured I'd [ask] anyways. Thanks.
8) The Revo 11 is a great little boat! Here's a review on it. 8)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37621


Last edited by Roadrunner on Tue May 29, 2012 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:15 am 
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Whilst reading all of this it has bought up a reoccuring theme in my own kayaking. Unlike Roadrunner I do not have access to a wide variety of Hobies or the $$ to own more than the Outback and Sport my wife and I currently own. I am pretty satisfied with the Outback as a fishing craft and had a very enjoyable afternoons fishing out of a local harbour on Saturday in very benign conditions. I covered quite a distance and did a long fast haul back to beat the darkness - an Adventure would have come in handy. As I have said before the Outbacks major drawback, IMHO, is its poor performance into a headwind and chop.

Any way I digress. I have been reading with interest about Stringy and Roadrunner adapting the Oasis for solo use. The reason I was looking at this was for a more seaworthy fishing platform than the Outback which wasn't as long and low as the Adventure and a bit more rigging friendly than the Revo 13, (fussy aren't I!). Anyhow as I looked at the pictures of the Oasis the thought struck me - how about a Revolution 14, a single seater based on the Oasis hull. It would provide a good size cockpit and front hatch area, wider gunwhales for rodholders, sounder etc and plenty of area in the rear for a decent sized cargo well. You would have the Revo bow to deal with swell and wind chop and better performance over distance. The 2 most popular fishing, (paddle), kayaks made in New Zealand are the Ocean Kayak 4.3 Ultra and the Viking 440 Profish - both around 14'6". This seems an ideal size for an ocean and large lake fishing kayak to me and I honestly believe there is a gap in the Hobie fleet for an open water fishing yak that is a bit more manouverable, shorter and drier than the Adventure.

The interesting thing for me is that the Mirage Drive has changed the way I fish, I very rarely use an anchor or a drift chute anymore. I tend to work structure by constantly changing my position or just hold in the current and almost exclusively lure fish now. As a consequence the Revo family of hulls seems to be the next step for me - I just wish the 13 was a wee bit bigger!


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:02 pm 
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I am currently seeking a Revo 13 for myself on the used/leftover/demo market. If I were a lighter individual, I would be very interested in the Revo 11. It seems a great boat. The extra capacity and couple of feet will prove useful to me at 200-225 lbs and in small ocean chop.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:45 pm 
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My wife and I each have our own Outfitters. When the younger kids want to go kayaking, we can throw one in each front seat. When she and I do extended trips, the front seat holds a huge cooler of food, folding chairs and I can also stow water in the bow to level the boat. They are also very wide (hard to tip) and I've been in some pretty rough water with mine. I've logged several hundred miles in mine and it has served me well. I may upgrade to the Oasis in the future, but I really don't have a pressing need to do so. I have pedaled an Oasis and it is a much faster boat.


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