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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Matt Miller
This concept may have been mentioned before in previous posts, yet may I ask?:
What would it take (cost) for Hobie to custom make 2 straight (beefed up) struts that are the same width as an AI tramp to allow 2 Adventure Islands to be connected together? The 2 AIs would use an Ama on each respective side (or possibly not)
Thank you in advance for any feedback
Tri

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Um, my guess would be that the forces involved would greatly exceed the design of the crossbars and akas. Imagine the twisting loads caused by one hull passing diagonally over the wave while the other is still climbing the face.

I would assume that the crossbar mountings and akas have only been engineered (with a suitable safety margin) to take the possible twisting loads generated by (relatively) tiny amas.

You only have to look at the structural effort designers go to to connect the hulls of large offshore cats to see the loads they are up against. Have a look at James Wharram's website to see how substantial his designs are for linking the hulls. http://wharram.com/site/


Nice concept though

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:29 pm 
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tonystott wrote:
Um, my guess would be that the forces involved would greatly exceed the design of the crossbars and akas. Imagine the twisting loads caused by one hull passing diagonally over the wave while the other is still climbing the face.

I would assume that the crossbar mountings and akas have only been engineered (with a suitable safety margin) to take the possible twisting loads generated by (relatively) tiny amas.

You only have to look at the structural effort designers go to to connect the hulls of large offshore cats to see the loads they are up against. Have a look at James Wharram's website to see how substantial his designs are for linking the hulls. http://wharram.com/site/


Nice concept though


Many thanks for your reply, tonystott
You've brought up some great points, including the extra stress produced by stretching the akas and amas to almost twice the size of what is now the norm.
That's why I asked for a beefed up set of struts. Yet the weakest link would be the connection of the braces that connect to the hull(s), as you so well mentioned. (I'm very familiar with standard Tri Construction).
Hobie has had years of experience with their Cats. However, it seems the polyprop material seems to be the weak link no matter how these boats are built, (imho).
If it could be made to work, it would put a whole new spin on truly working together to achieve the intent.
(Matter of fact, it could resolve or break a few relationships in deciding who runs the ship(s) on an equal basis.

Cheers, M8
Tri

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:15 pm 
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[quote="tonystott"
You only have to look at the structural effort designers go to to connect the hulls of large offshore cats to see the loads they are up against. Have a look at James Wharram's website to see how substantial his designs are for linking the hulls. http://wharram.com/site/[/quote]

The Wharram designs never really caught on here in the North Pacific. There are not many for sale here as most of them where homebuilt with the stitch method (most of them fell apart either due to bad construction or neglect).
The ones that were pro built here (and maintained) still are considered as a novelty item along the same lines as the ferro cement monoliths that were built here by Samson Marine in the 70's. (Probably the most noted ferro cement boat was a trans pacific voyage from Vancouver, BC that hit the Great Barrier Reef, took a chunk out of the corral and kept on going.) They were also slow, had the ability to roll in a following sea and almost needed a tug to get them to their berth.

The French really were the ones to take the fiberglass Cat to the next level. Their overhead was huge, ergo the US$500k+ price for one of their pride and joys. Considering their popularity in the Caribbean as tourist charter vessels, these incredibly well engineered vessels have left most other other deep sea cats in the dust.

So how does this make it as a post about AI's?
Quite simply, the principles of Cats, Tris remain the same. It would be refreshing to not have to constantly be concerned about the limits of these popular boats that we invested in, but to find new and innovative ways to mod or retro them to suit our creativity without concerns about the limitations of the materials that they are constructed from!

Regards,
Tri

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:18 am 
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Trinomite wrote:
Matt Miller
This concept may have been mentioned before in previous posts, yet may I ask?:
What would it take (cost) for Hobie to custom make 2 straight (beefed up) struts that are the same width as an AI tramp to allow 2 Adventure Islands to be connected together?


Been on our minds, but not considered possible due to factors mentioned above. Once you start moving in rough water the racking stress is huge. Will break the existing molded-in fastener hardware.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:57 pm 
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If we are talking about a "Quad-maran", I think the idea is lolo. (And I know lolo :? )

Cuz If it didn't break, it would sail like a dog.

If it's just a bi-hull, then why try to build a better cat? You can buy one dirt cheap - or put a trolling motor on a Hobie Wave. That's a design win!

Frankly, anytime we see someone tie 2 Kayaks together out here, we mix a fresh batch of mojitos, put our feet up and wait for the wreckage video to make it to Youtube.

(Tony, thanks for the Wharram link. Looks very polynesian - an upgraded version of the double Waka sailing canoes.)

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Hey NOHUHU
Of course a quad-maran would sail like a pig. So would 4 pigs tied to two AIs...
You sail in Waters far different than where I live. We have 280K miles of coast line between here and Alaska.
Who said anything about sailing two AIs together? I simply asked if it was possible to buy 2 custom struts that can connect 2 AIs together. I have a full anchor system, my buddy does not. So instead of wasting our time trying to beach and camp (and deal with 12 foot low tides), the 'quad-maran' would make a dandy floating campground in sheltered waters. (However, it would be fun to try it out in very light airs...)
The reason the early Wharram designs never caught on here was because they were open decked models more suited for the tropics than the North Pacific where it rains as soon as you sneeze.
However, I'd love to see the vids of the train wrecks near Hawaii. :lol:
Cheers
Tri

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Aloha Tri,

Without the mention of camping or flat water, I had to assume you wanted this siamese twin to actually move. I could not produce any good visions of that! I keep thinking of other efforts to hook up 2 AI's that ended badly.

But for sheltered camping, there are lots of ways to go. You could easily tie your Amas together or interlock them. With AI's, if you don't float all 4 Amas, there may not be enough stability. But 2 TI's could really make a nice party boat. (Hmmmn,..)

From there, a combo of Haka benches and tramps would give you room to stretch out, sleep and move around. A large inflatable raft between the boats might even be better.

The only concerns I see would be any rocking transferred from boat to boat (catapult) and what to do when it's time for #2.

Actually, one more thing might worry me. Can bears swim? :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:30 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
Trinomite wrote:
Matt Miller
This concept may have been mentioned before in previous posts, yet may I ask?:
What would it take (cost) for Hobie to custom make 2 straight (beefed up) struts that are the same width as an AI tramp to allow 2 Adventure Islands to be connected together?


Been on our minds, but not considered possible due to factors mentioned above. Once you start moving in rough water the racking stress is huge. Will break the existing molded-in fastener hardware.


Thank for the info, Matt
I simply wanted to know if it was possible as just a means of connection.

Best Regards
Tri

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:01 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Aloha Tri,

Without the mention of camping or flat water, I had to assume you wanted this siamese twin to actually move. I could not produce any good visions of that! I keep thinking of other efforts to hook up 2 AI's that ended badly.

But for sheltered camping, there are lots of ways to go. You could easily tie your Amas together or interlock them. With AI's, if you don't float all 4 Amas, there may not be enough stability. But 2 TI's could really make a nice party boat. (Hmmmn,..)

From there, a combo of Haka benches and tramps would give you room to stretch out, sleep and move around. A large inflatable raft between the boats might even be better.

The only concerns I see would be any rocking transferred from boat to boat (catapult) and what to do when it's time for #2.

Actually, one more thing might worry me. Can bears swim? :shock:


Hey Bud
Thanks for your response.
I've seen the brilliant stuff you've done to your boat; Well Done!
On the 'Coast' here, there are some amazingly sheltered places, but just when you thought your butt was safe, some 140 footer plows his way up to Desolation Sound and would prolly yank the fittings out of the hulls due to the bow wave spill over even in the most protected places.
For the 'raft' I use a Sevylor Inflatable Paddleboard. It's not the best but it makes a great mattress if the pressure is reduced down to 5 or 6 lbs.
Thanks for your suggestions on alternative camping methods. I'll give them a close look.
As for the Bears' swimming ability, yup they can. However in Southern BC we only get Black Bears which are low on the ferocity scale. (The Browns live up north, and they are way dangerous when the sows have cubs in tow). Either way, I carry a Very Pistol. In the last 40 years, I've only had to shoot one Black (much to my regret...).
Take care
Tri

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:00 pm 
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WARNING!
A Very Pistol is considered as a standard for Safety gear on any offshore/inshore vessel to be used in case of emergency.
As the majority of my life experience on the water has been as a Yachtsman, I warn you that unskilled use of a Very Pistol can cause you grief in no uncertain terms.
1) A Very Pistol is a single action, single shot flare gun that fires an incendiary rocket shell.
2) NEVER aim it at anything unless your life is in danger. Remember, it was designed to declare an Emergency and not as a hunting tool or as a toy!
3) Even though the kit comes in a plastic case with the orange plastic pistol and a number of flares - NEVER allow your kids access to the flares unless they are of a responsible age and reason and have been trained in a safe manner in the pistol`s use!
4) If the device has to be used in an outdoor environment for self protection, make damn sure that you don`t start a forest fire or worse set your own vessel ablaze. If you are in Bear country, also consider noise making devices to warn the local wildlife of your presence...(Bear Spray is a waste of time, btw)

I felt that needed to be mentioned for the less experienced members of this forum for their own safety and that of their family and their boat.

Sincerely
Tri

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