Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:27 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:45 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 410
Location: Metuchen NJ
the time has come for me to figure out a simple and safe way to crank up the mast on my H18. the wife no longer wants to be part of the raising process and frankly it's getting a bit tiresome for me as well.

I trailer most of the time to launching sites. the mast stand on my trailer is mounted at the front crossbar location. I know I need the winched pulling line way up front near the trailer hitch to get the proper angle.

what have any of you done? tips from your experience are greatly appreciated.

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:59 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2556
Location: Jersey Shore
Are you planning to do this solo, or will your wife be helping by cranking the winch?

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:08 am
Posts: 209
Location: St. Charles, IL
I use the mast stepper.

Tie the traps to the front crossbeam and around hull to limit sideways motion of the mast.

Attach mast base, and mast stepper to the mast. It also has lines to go around the hull at the front crossbar.

Attach the base of the furler to the mast stepper/gin pole and the winch to the same spot.

make sure the lines are clear and your side stays are properly atached.

Crank up the mast and attach bow bridles.

Remove mast stepper stuff and trap wires and go sailing

_________________
Dan St. Gean
'82 H 18
'96 H Wave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:47 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 am
Posts: 81
I was in the same boat for a while, and I'll tell you what I did.

Before raising:
On one side only, I pinned the shroud all the way to the top hole on the adjuster to loosen the rig completely. I have the forestay connected to the furler/adjuster in its correct position and the bridle wires disconnected from the bow tangs. I then get the mast connected to the step, pinned, and ready to raise. I connect the winch hook to a port and starbord trap wire (to the thimble, not the dogbone or adjustment line). Make sure ratchet is engaged in the winch !!

Raising:
I stand on the tramp in the usual position, and get the mast raised to shoulder level. My wife, meanwhile is cranking the winch quickly to take up the slack.
Once winch strap is tight, she continues to crank very quickly and I (very important) prevent the mast from swinging side-to-side. I don't put any effort into raising, only preventing the swing.
Once it's up, I have the wife pin both bridle wires to the tangs (it's easy because there is slack in the rig, and the winch hook is holding the mast upright).
Remove winch hook from trap wires and use your harness to re-tighten rig (use opposite side adjuster as the guide).

Done


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:27 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:33 am
Posts: 221
Location: Florida
My situation is unique because I have a Magnum with a Cheata motor mount under the deadeye on the rear crossbar. I use both of these to my advantage but I've suggested substitutes below.

My trailer has a mast support at the front and another removable one mounted on the Cheata and secured to the deadeye on the rear crossbar for trailering. My winch is near the top of the front support.

I move the mast aft so it's resting on the rear support with the tip on the ground and the foot above the base. I pull the foot down and pin it to the base. The front tie downs are still on at this point because in this configuration there's a lot of weight on the back of the boat and it will start to want to tip on the rear roller.

I adjust the front two trap lines so they are the same length and hook them up to the winch and pull it snug. Then I take the jib sheet on each side and run it under the front crossbar, up the front of the crossbar, back around around the outside of base of the wing and hook it to the rear trap line. When you pull them snug you should have support on either side to keep the mast going up straight AND everything is rotating on roughly the same line.

The support on the Cheata/deadeye is high enough that the tip is about 12-15 feet in the air. That's important because you need that positive angle to get started. Otherwise (and I should probably do it as well but I store mast up and only do it once a year) you need to rig a gin pole to get the leverage you need to get started.

Make sure the shrouds are attached and they and the forestay aren't tangled with each other or the diamond wires. Then start winching. I stop every 10-15 degrees, check for tangles, and adjust the jib lines to keep everything straight because they stretch a bit and the wind effects things. They usually need to be loosened a bit because they're anchored a bit lower than the base.

When I get near the top I pull the hinge pin because it's hard to get out once you put tension on the rig. Pull it as tight as you want and you can take your time fastening the forestay to the bridal because nothings going anywhere until you back off the winch and unhook the trap lines.

It sounds complicated but it's really not and I've never had a problem with this method. And it doesn't require a lot of extra gear (none with my set up). The 2 things you'd need to figure out for a standard 18 are how to keep the jib sheets at the corners of the tramp and how to get the mast high enough to start.

I'd guess that a 2x4 with a notch in one end would solve the second part once everything else was in place to keep it centered. Or you could rig a gin pole.

You could try running the jib lines over the front crossbar and back up through the corner of the tramp. Not ideal because it's not as far out and would put a little load on the tramp but I bet it would work. Or you could run it through the tie down. When I first started I just moved the cars all the way forward and loosened them every few degrees but that took longer.

Hope this helps.

_________________
The ox is slow but the earth is patient


Last edited by JSWoerner on Thu May 31, 2012 9:44 am, edited 4 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:33 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:15 am
Posts: 227
Location: Indialantic, FL
My setup is roughly the same....

- I changed my winch to a lower 4.4:1 ratio to make it super easy for my helper to crank it up and hold it on the way down.
- I installed a galvanized chain from the front of the trailer tongue to about 2/3 up the mast support post to keep it from getting pulled forward (and broken, as some have done) during the raising/lowering process.
- I installed a pulley just below the mast support "V" at the top
- I connect the winch line to the two of the trapeze lines (one from each side)
- With the mast base pinned, I stand on the tramp and lift the mast up while my helper cranks the winch. Once it starts, I'm just keeping it from swaying to one side or the other.
- Once it's vertical, I hold it there while my helper connects the forestay, then removes the winch line from the trap lines.

- I haven't had to do it by myself yet, but if I had to, I would use the jib sheets (as others have done) forward, through the tramp hole, under and around the front crossbar back to the second (rearward) trap lines to prevent side-side motion. I would also need to install a brace to lift the mast up about three feet above the tramp before I would start cranking. The angle between the pulley and the tramp is too sharp to pull the mast up right off the tramp area.

Hope this helps,

Mark

_________________
2007 Hobie Tiger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Lowering
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:09 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:33 am
Posts: 221
Location: Florida
Obviously lowering you just reverse everything with one word of caution. My winch is hand cranked and I use it to pull the boat onto the trailer. Sometimes this means the cable is not attached to anything or at least not pulled super tight. As a result there may be places in the spool where there's a little "play".

Try to avoid this as much as possible because when these places play out suddenly as you're lowering the tip can drop suddenly. This especially true as the mast nears horizontal where the stress on the cable is the highest. 1/2 inch of cable suddenly playing out can drop the tip a 6" or more suddenly and cause some heart stopping moments. Fortunately I've never had a disaster but I make sure that there's always tension on the cable when I'm reeling in, especially when there's a lot of cable out.

_________________
The ox is slow but the earth is patient


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:33 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2556
Location: Jersey Shore
flaco wrote:
I was in the same boat for a while, and I'll tell you what I did.

Raising:
...I stand on the tramp in the usual position, and get the mast raised to shoulder level. My wife, meanwhile is cranking the winch quickly to take up the slack.
Once winch strap is tight, she continues to crank very quickly and I (very important) prevent the mast from swinging side-to-side. I don't put any effort into raising, only preventing the swing....


Assuming your wife is there to operate the winch, this is the method that I was also going to recommend. Connect the winch line to the trap wires and have your wife crank 'er up while you simply guide the mast so it stays in line side-to-side. This is the simplest way to do it. I would avoid using a gin pole and/or using the trap wires for side-to-side stabilizing if you don't need too. It's more complication and more opportunitys for things to go wrong.

If you don't have a winch, you can connect a long length of line to the main halyard or trap lines. Then have your wife stand in front of the boat and simply start walking backward, pulling the mast up as she goes. Just a small amount of help will make the mast much easier to raise. Once it's up, one of you pins the forestay while the other holds the mast up.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:26 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:28 pm
Posts: 223
Location: BC, Canada
I always rise mast solo. It's not worth to jeopardize your relationship with your spouse; I've learned (don't ask).

I use a Y pole to give me a good starting angle and to make mast handling easier.
Image
Image


Jack

_________________
H17
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:46 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am
Posts: 1072
Location: North Carolina
A couple 2"x4"x8's with a bolt near one end makes a nice mast lift. From there you can winch or lift manually.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:12 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 410
Location: Metuchen NJ
many thanks for these many tips and ideas. it will be a two person job.

since my trailer mast stand is at the front cross bar location, I will have to lead the winch rope forward around a block near the trailer's tongue, then back up and over a gin pole and connect to the trap line(s).
I want to keep it as simple as I can. I do like the idea of walking the mast up with winched assistance from whoever is with me.
you all have mentioned several variations on side stay stabilization. I'll re-read through it all to get a clear picture of the process. In essence, any side stays need to be inline with the front crossbar... the same pivot point as the mast.

any tips on gin pole construction, length, etc?
thanks!

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:12 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2556
Location: Jersey Shore
Is there a reason you can't just move the front mast stand forward on the trailer tongue?

How do you get the bridle wires past the mast stand after the mast is raised if the stand is right at the front crossbar? I imagine you would either need to lift the bows so the wires go over the stand or remove the stand completely each time. Both of these seem like a major PITA.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 667
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Chris,

If and when you are ready, I have an E Z Up Gin Pole system complete.
Dusty and in great shape, and never used by me. Offers?

Are there no 'volunteers' on your beach?
We Shanghai Laser sailors, visitors, kids, anyone nearby....
sometimes we have to bribe them with the threat of a ride, or an oat soda....

Take a 50' length of line, tied to the Aussie Halyard ring, held by someone waaaay in front of the H18.
Pin the mast base,
have one person each side on a trap wire, (preventing side sway),
I jump on the tramp and raise the mast to about 30 or 35 Degrees,
then the rope person walks backwards....while I continue to raise,
watch for tangles...
then secure the bridle clevis pins (Mike are you there?)
The whole shebang takes 6 - 8 minutes.
The reverse is quicker.

A variation is to tie the 50' length to a fence post or tree or car bumper or similar, and using two sets of cat trax, wheel the H18 backwards so the mast raises itself....
works very well on the 'hard' where we park the boats.

Hope you settle in to your new routine quickly and smoothly.

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:56 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2556
Location: Jersey Shore
John Lunn C A wrote:
A variation is to tie the 50' length to a fence post or tree or car bumper or similar, and using two sets of cat trax, wheel the H18 backwards so the mast raises itself....


That sounds to me to be about the most ass backward and dangerous way you could possibly choose to raise a mast.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: mast raising system?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:28 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 410
Location: Metuchen NJ
yes, I do lift the bridles/bows over the mast stand.

two reasons I like where the mast stand is:
first, it is a secure point the boat rests against. no forward sliding during hard traffic stops.
second, the mast stand becomes rigid in its current position. farther foward sitting by itself it can sway side to side. I sometimes have bicycles on a rear end mount of my Jeep. the tongue stand position would interfere with the bikes.

John, you have my email, please tell me what your gin pole kit contains.
Thanks!

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group