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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
snjsanders wrote:
Looks like I am the next victim for a soon to be weld failure. After being alerted by sEs of the problem, I check my welds and found these stress cracks. Decided that my weekend fishing trip 6 miles offshore had to be put on hold till I knew that my boat won't fall apart! Hopefully, Hobie can get it to me the part by next weekend! Thanks for all the post on this topic, and thanks to sEs for alerting me to the problem.
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I wouldn't be too overly concerned about a failure, I went out on a calm day with almost no wind to speak of and got caught in a freak squall. It was a fairly strong blow, very gusty and even after a heavy reef, I sunk amas. I was quite concerned that the x bar would fail at any moment but it didn't even whimper!

Fy: 7 days for Hobie to get my replacement x bar to my dealer! Go Hobie!

Cheers,

J

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2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:46 am
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Location: Honolulu,HI
This happened on Sunday 5/27 . Luckily I was in the bay, by myself, and not out in the deep blue. I submitted for warranty at the local dealer. (2011 TI MODEL)

The last pic shows that beautiful weld . Something had to give and guessing its easier to replace the X-bar and Lower mast than it is to replace a cracked hull.

Thanks for the earlier posts.



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ImageImage

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:39 am 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
Isaiah wrote:
This happened on Sunday 5/27 . Luckily I was in the bay, by myself, and not out in the deep blue. I submitted for warranty at the local dealer. (2011 TI MODEL)

The last pic shows that beautiful weld . Something had to give and guessing its easier to replace the X-bar and Lower mast than it is to replace a cracked hull.

Thanks for the earlier posts.



Image
ImageImage


Suck! Were there any visible cracks before it failed? What were the wind conditions like? Can you tell us more details about what happened right before it failed?

Glad you are safe and there was no injuries or strandings.

J

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2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:46 am 
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Location: Honolulu,HI
Kayakman7 I had sail out to 2nd or 3rd batten winds was 10-20 variable. I never checked or noticed anything wrong, it just happened. Earlier I had the kids on, good thing none was onboard this time. I think the mast will usually fall away from you. My reaction at first was to say "Hobie Spirit!!!" then you react. LOL Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
NOHUHU wrote:
BTW, we had a TI Xbar failure out here just last week.
Make that 2 in Hawaii! :cry: AUWE!

(And those welds looked perfect!)

We WERE in deep water and deep doo that big wind day. Luckily no breaks.

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:18 am 
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Being a Hobie Outback owner and planning on being a Tandem Island owner someday soon, I have been reading this forum with great interest. I have my two cents to throw at this topic.
My guess at the failure mode seems to be too thin of an aluminum tube to take the stresses induced into the weld to tube interface. Welding a thick aluminum plate to a thin tube can also be problematic.

Potential solutions to this problem would be:
1. Make the entire tube/bearing plated assembly out of 316 stainless

2. Weld a thicker tube section to the thinner tube to distribute the stresses over a larger surface area. I would also redesign the bearing plate to a dual sandwiched design to distribute these stresses to a wider zone. This would minimize the forces acting at the weld zones. See drawing concept at:

http://s1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... KANSAS.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
FlatK - it sure looks that way in these particular pictures.

It was a windy day for sure to have too much sail out, but other things should have happened before this failure. It's the kind of damage one would expect to see if you huli'd in surf and stuck the mast in the bottom, or drove under a bridge with the mast up. :oops:

Something ripped that XBAR a new one.

Guess Hobie should reinforce the lower mast too.

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 419
Location: Florida
I know the TI only has the newer V2 akas, but I am curious to know if there is a difference in thickness between the V1 Fwd Xbars on the AI verses the V2 Xbars.

The impression I got in just looking at the 2 type of Xbars was the new ones (V2s) looked thinner, or at least looked less substantial - but I may be wrong, could just be the way they are shaped differently.

In the one picture above showing failure where metal is torn out of the Xbar it looks like the weld held and at least part of the metal failed.

Almost bought a TI, but wife and I having too much fun, each with our own AI.

Of course it would be wise for even AI owners to inspect all their metal on a routine basis.


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:33 am 
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The old AI XBARs are thick, but are "pinched" and welded at the pinned ends. This makes them even thicker and stronger there but not so much in the center, at the mast plate. Still, no real problems reported there on new or old AIs.

The extra TI sail clearly overpowers the early XBARS. It's also what makes the boat such a fun adventure.

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
Well, I received my new x-bar and finally got around to installing it.
Image
Image
There is one minor little issue: the akas don't fit anymore!
Image

any ideas?
i remember that there were new clips that replaced the old ones to prevent the akas from accidentally releasing, could this be the culprit?

glad i noticed this before packing up for a sail...

cheers,

j

oh yeah, Kudos to Hobie! Fast shipping and minimal hardware changing. They sent two new cam cleats and whole new roller assembly!

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2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:08 am 
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Location: Boynton Beach, FL
kayakman7 wrote:
Well, I received my new x-bar and finally got around to installing it.

kayakman7 wrote:
There is one minor little issue: the akas don't fit anymore!

kayakman7 wrote:
i remember that there were new clips that replaced the old ones to prevent the akas from accidentally releasing, could this be the culprit?


Hi Kayakman,

Glad you received the new xbar so quickly. And sad to see the akas are not snapping in properly.

I am experiencing a similiar (but not exactly the same) issue with my new replacement xbar with the double weld. I too have the new aka clips install on my akas that replaced the old ones to prevent the akas from accidentally releasing. While my akas do clip in, they pop out of the xbar too easily with a simple outward jerk on the aka.

On my friend's TI, while he and his wife was sailing and fishing in the open ocean, the akas popped out of the xbar. This was not the optimal time for the akas to accidentally release from the xbar. Luckily, he was able to snap the aka back in before capsizing.

I wonder how many TIs are affected by this issue? Is anyone considering screwing their akas into the xbar to make this connection more permanent?

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Marc K
2010 Hobie Tandem Island
Boynton Beach, FL


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:24 am 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
I still use a leash to hold mine in, even though they haven't tried to escape since I did the fixes.
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=41340

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Thanks kayakman, you really need an answer to this issue.

And we need to define this issue better.

Is the problem Akas not inserting or are they too easily detached? Both?

Is the problem caused by old and new parts not matching? (Any bar upgrade would need new clips as well?)

Or are the factory tolerances the issue? (Any given clip might fit better than another). That's my experience.

Is it on the Aka side. The crossbar side?

What part numbers do we need to mix a perfect Aka cocktail?


I address these questions to everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:52 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
NOHUHU wrote:
BTW, we had a TI Xbar failure out here just last week.
Make that 2 in Hawaii! :cry: AUWE!
Make that 3 in Hawaii! :o Just heard about another.


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:12 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
NOHUHU wrote:
NOHUHU wrote:
NOHUHU wrote:
BTW, we had a TI Xbar failure out here just last week.
Make that 2 in Hawaii! :cry: AUWE!
Make that 3 in Hawaii! :o Just heard about another.


I was hoping it was just a bad batch of xbars but it's starting to look like a "designed within cost contraints" thing...

Broke a few offroad suspension mounts to realize that it was best to weld up a box around the over stressed mount rather than rely on a single line of welds. Resulted in extra cost and weight after the repair but gain more confidence and less breakdowns out in the field.

c2y


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