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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:58 am 
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I have had my TI for about 4 weeks now and I have got it out in the open sea about 4 or 5 times, each time I notice about 2 to 4 gallons of water inside the hull, I checked the drain plug and made sure that is very tight, I just don't know where this water could be coming from? The rudder lines? The hatches? On ruff sailing? Is this normal for the TI to have that much water in it after being out in the open ocean for more than 5 hours. I am thinking about installing a small bulge pump inside the hull near the back side of the TI. Any TI owners out there experience this? Or is it just me?

I love fishing offshore in the TI it makes a great fishing yak :)
Thanks Daniel.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:29 am 
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Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
Before you install a pump or do anything preventive that cost money make a leak test to locate where the leak(s) are.

1. Put the kayak on your lawn and put some dry clothes inside, cowering bottom under all hatches, rudderlines, around sailmast, rudder control handle and every possible place where water can get in. Use your garde hose and create worst possible "weather". Dry the kayak outside and open up hatches and inspect where the clothes are not dry.

2. Use a vacuum cleaner backwards to create an air pressure inside tha kayak. Test with soap water for leaks.
It will leak around big front hatch because that will not hold tight against this pressure.

1-2 gallon water is a lot. You need to know where the leak is located. (or leaks)

God luck

br
thomas


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:42 am 
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First place that i would suspect is the front hatch. Hobie has improved the 2012 gaskets but it is still a large area to seal. Also the bungee cord cut out on the side of the hatches tends to scoop water forcing water around the hatch channel. Heal and go fast enough an all gaskets will leak due to hydrostatic pressure. I went to some extremes on my 2011 AI to close up the gaps. Another idea is to put Dielectric Silicone Grease on the gaskets. Available in Auto Parts store. It does attract sand and dirt.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Location: tampa, fl
When I first started sailing my TI I had a water problem but it has gone away.
Things I did.
Cheeikas dielectric grease on the hatch seals and make sure they are down tight.
Stopped lashing things on top of the front hatch like an anchor
Watch the little seals were the rudder lines go thru. If you overload the backend and they stay under water you will have some intake.
Fixed the 1/8" hole that was in my hull at the top to bottom joint about midway down the side. Hobie gave me the patch material said it was a blow out during the molding process. put a bright light inside the hull and you can inspect for these.

And like Doglife says when you blast thru the rough stuff the hull flexes and breathes a bit so some water coming in is going to take place.

One big problem I have experienced and also witnessed is the inability to pump out the hull once it is full of water. When you open a hatch to place the pump your weight sinks the boat more and the hatch is submerged or close to submersion. We were always close to a calm beach so no problem but if your pump was in the submerged hatch and you are 12 miles out..well you get the idea. The amas will keep you floating and you can sail but it is slow.

The best hand system I have seen is a hand pump mounted thru the drink holder area.
I have considered getting pump that could be attached to hose that comes out of the deck for this kind of emergency and keep the pump lashed on the deck someplace.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:22 am 
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Here is the fitting for taking the bilge pump into the hull without needing to open one of the big hatches
Image
and here is the pump. You just need to add a 1" hose which reaches to the centre of the hull.
Image

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:56 am 
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I think if you need a permanent bilge pump fitting, then you have some other leak issue that needs to be corrected. The watertight bulkhead helped me segregate the leaks. Bow is 98% watertight. Most water comes in if I open the center hatch in rough weather. I keep a sponge under the hatch. Loading your boat correctly reduces pitching. Keep the heavy weight out of the ends and in the center of the boat...

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:41 pm 
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And if more than 4 gallons of water gets in there, you will experience pitching issues from that.

People sometimes deform their seals (like the hatch) buy storing with over-tightened bungies or loading the inside of the bow with bulky items.

It's all guesswork, unless you perform a positive pressure leak test.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Paul, call me a worry wart, but the small cost of that deck fitting, plus a bit of clear hose on my bilge pump gives me piece of mind should I cop a big wave on deck while I have an open hatch, diety forbid, develop a cracked hull in a drive well etc while a long distance from shore.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:49 am 
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If you take long, rough trips offshore, I would agree w/ Tony, though that spot still concerns me. It is perhaps the wettest spot in the cockpit and catches/drains every gunwale splash. More so on the new models with the soft side handles. The glovebox areas are constantly UNDER water on the AIs/TIs I sail.

It's a convenient location for an exhaust port but if not done right, could quickly become a liability.

Maybe Tony could provide some installation advice.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:21 pm 
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I cannot claim credit for the original concept (nor do I want to point the finger at the guy who thought of it LOL), but here is the thinking behind it.

If there is a lot of water inside the hull, this will usually be due to either a big wave having entered through an open hatch, or (worse) the hull is no longer 100% sealed due to a failure of some kind.

In either scenario, keeping open one of the twist n seal hatches to get at the water inside is fraught with danger, due to the sheer volume of water which could then enter, plus the possibility that the opening is already closer to water level due to what is already in the hull.

Fitting a small removable plug in the drink holder position relies on three factors to make it work.
1. The small 1" diameter opening cannot let in as much water as the hatch.
2. The plastic tube on the bilge pump effectively seals the opening when the pump is there, so getting moving again while pumping is viable without letting more water in.
3. Water coming out of the pump goes directly over the side

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:31 pm 
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Paul - your advise from experience is invaluable and appreciated.

... wouldn't a hunk of thick tarp material shaped to overhang the front opening and then the hatch closed over it eliminate most leakage there ?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Location: Perth West Australia
I have fitted an auto bilge pump as a safety measure for offshore trips.
Image

Image

I also used the large boat drain bung idea for feeding cables of my sounder through the hull. So now I look at this bung plug Idea, I could also fit one as a safety pump access port. But having already fitted one plug in the left side (small can size) drink bottle holder and this has the transducer cable running through the plug. There is also a second fitted in the same spot for the front seat so I can have my sounder cables thread through either front or rear seat position. That means I could use a pump tube through either hole that is not filled by the sounder transducer cable plug. BUT in the drink bottle holder location, I find it a bit hard to access quickly so I think I might look for another location (as well).

I see the advantage of the drink bottle location is that the pump would be nice and close to use whilst sitting and peddling.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:36 am 
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I did a simple hatch test, I used vaseline all around all the hatches to create a "water seal", the 3 twist and seal hatches, and even the front hatch. Went offshore and this time after being 8 hours in offshore conditions, at the launch area in the end of the day this time I had about 1 gallon of water instead of 3 to 4.

I suspect that the water may be dripping in from other places that have screws that go into the hull, those areas may have to be gooped up and sealed outside and inside of the hull. There is a metal plate in the back near the rudder to keep the sail line from rubbing on the plastic, I think the screws there may be the main spot that water may drip inside from because that area sometimes is below the water line.

I dont think I have to install a water pump, but I will bring a manual pump at all times with me when offshore fishing.

Thanks for all the great ideas guys keep them comming!

~Daniel

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:15 am 
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Living Waters wrote:
I have had my TI for about 4 weeks now and I have got it out in the open sea about 4 or 5 times, each time I notice about 2 to 4 gallons of water inside the hull,....

That is a lot of water and indicates a significant leak or leaks. You don’t have to have a cracked hull to get that much water in your boat on a day trip. The most obvious source of leaks are the hatch covers. If the Twist-n-Seal hatch covers are leaking they can allow considerable water in because (1) the horizontal ones may be submerged regularly, and (2) water sets on top of the horizontal ones and may seep in through the seal. In a long outing that seepage can be significant. The o-ring seal on these covers needs to be maintained with a light coating of silicon grease, and it needs to be free of sand, fish scales, and other debris to be water tight.

The front hatch cover is well designed for a rotomolded hatch opening. It is slanted to drain water. It is surrounded by a moat which drains water from the area. Lastly, if the two tubular hatch seals are functioning properly, they seal the hatch opening. I’ve had 3 AIs (counting my wife’s as one.) On two of them, the front hatch did not leak in general. Even a good front hatch cover will leak under the certain conditions: (1) if something is placed under the hatch cover shock cords (e.g., a heavy line, a fish net, a paddle, an anchor,) this can distort the cover and serious leakage can occur. (2) The tube seal can come unglued from its fitting and cause leakage. Hobie is no longer using a glued top seal. Rather, they sell a “Trim-loc” molded seal which should be better. (3) The front hatch cover will leak if the hatch is too full of gear and exerts even the slightest upward pressure on the cover.

I purchased a used 2011 AI. The previous owner apparently left the front hatch cover on and shock-corded down. That caused the top sealing tube to flatten permanently so it no longer sealed. That hatch cover leaked.

If you have leakage in the front hatch area, you also need to check the shock cord fittings. They need to be unscrewed and the threaded openings checked to be sure they are threaded properly and are not cut into the hull. If you have significant leakage, as Living Waters has experienced, probably all screw fittings need to be checked.

Keith

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