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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:58 am 
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This is my second season with my TI on Lake Huron in Michigan. I struggle to get the rudder to work reliably. I have two problems:
1) the lines get slack
2) Under strong wind, the boat wants to steer into the wind

This weekend, I installed a set of small stainless steel turnbuckles in the rudder lines just under the rear hatch. This enabled me to tighten them up after sailing a bit. The idea works, but I still don't have them as tight as I'd like.

I ordered some Dyneema IronWire to replace the stock lines in the hope that it they will not stretch as much.

Anyone have any better ideas?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:12 am 
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Location: oki - jp
i had an original TI back in like 2010 or whenever the first ones came on the market (had pre ordered it almost a year prior :D) and this happened on my old TI and really bothered me, then i got rid of that TI after the warm months were through. Now i have a 2012 and just last weekend it started happening again and it drives me nuts. i feel like i can't turn left as sharp as i can right and there is a little bit of slack in the line.

this is the only thing that bothers me on my new TI so far. i had a hard time steering left yesterday in the the wind but not sure if that is because it was blowing 15-20 or not¿


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:25 am 
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Sounds familiar

I also find that in a heavy wind, I need to push both rudder controls to get full motion. I suspect that there is too much friction in my rudder handles. On my next trip to the cottage, I will see if I can clean and lube the handle pivots.


Anyone try that???


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:26 pm 
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On the hard to turn rudder control, check to see that the internal rudder lines aren't wrapped around each other. Mine were, and it when strait, they are much easier to turn.

On the turning into the wind, that's called weather helm, and it's suppose to do that. If you reef a bit more, it won't do it as much except during stronger gusts.

You do have the newer (free upgrade) strait up/down BIG, heavy rudder, not the twist-n-stow, right?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Location: Toledo, OH
I have the old twist and stow rudder. When strong winds turn me into the wind, I know I have to reef the sail. Loss of rudder control in lessor winds is due to the rudder lifting, normally this only effects right rudder, not left - that means I need to cinch the rudder firmly down with the retention pin, losing the ability to 'twist and stow'. If I need to keep ability to lift the rudder - such as when I know I'll be in very shallow or 'weedy' water, I just live with the loss of rudder control and use my paddle to augment it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:26 pm 
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I did the rudder-ectomy last summer, so I think I have the latest. I will definitely check my lines as an unintended crossing would explain a lot.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
BlueMark wrote:
I have the old twist and stow rudder. When strong winds turn me into the wind, I know I have to reef the sail. Loss of rudder control in lessor winds is due to the rudder lifting, normally this only effects right rudder, not left - that means I need to cinch the rudder firmly down with the retention pin, losing the ability to 'twist and stow'. If I need to keep ability to lift the rudder - such as when I know I'll be in very shallow or 'weedy' water, I just live with the loss of rudder control and use my paddle to augment it.

Bluemark, I've an idea Hobie had a kit for upgrading the old screw-lock twist & stow rudder to the newer up/down line system. Might be worth investigating.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:33 am 
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Location: oki - jp
i too will check on the twisting of the lines on mines to see if this helps. thanks for the recommendations.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:49 am 
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Location: Tampa Bay, FL
i was having issues with my rudder till my dealer showed me how to tighten the lines up on the rudder (where they screw down with the phillips head on the back)..now i keep a philips with me, but havent had to readjust/tighten them back up yet. but it was so bad to the point that i could turn one handle and the other stayed in it's position, to even get the rudder to turn, had to move both handles....kinda sucked that trip. now when i turn my rudder control, both move and stop at about the same positions.

but i have the new style rudder, not sure if the same thing would help the old style.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Thrashie wrote:
i was having issues with my rudder till my dealer showed me how to tighten the lines up on the rudder (where they screw down with the phillips head on the back)..now i keep a philips with me, but havent had to readjust/tighten them back up yet. but it was so bad to the point that i could turn one handle and the other stayed in it's position, to even get the rudder to turn, had to move both handles....kinda sucked that trip. now when i turn my rudder control, both move and stop at about the same positions.

but i have the new style rudder, not sure if the same thing would help the old style.

I had a similar issue and I think I made it worse by taking the screws out of the equation. My idea was to simpy tie a knot in the lines that was too big to pull through the rudder hold. This would eliminate the need for the friction under the screw head altogether. Then, I installed two small stainless steel turnbuckles between teh grey line and the waxy white lines that go to the rudder. My thought was that I could use the turnbuckles to tighten the lines and never touch the knot at the rudder end again.

So far, I don't think it is a good strategy. The turnbuckles only have an inch or two of stroke. The knots in the white line at the rudder holes pull so tight that it is now impossible to untie them to pull out any slack. So, to tighten any further, I need to untie the knots at the turnbuckles, move them back and retie. A total pain in the butt....

My next plan of attack:
1) use my iPhone video camera to look inside the hull for any crossed lines at the controls
2) replace the lines with Iron Wire - if I can figure out how to get at the rudder controls
3) lube the rudder controls and readjust them to both align together
4) keep the turnbuckles, but also use the screws to avoid having to untie/retie knots
5) hope that the friction under the screw heads holds Iron Wire. I would like to find a set of washers that have a grippy side to them to pinch the line under the screw head.

Any comments/advice on any of these is appreciated. I won't get to the boat for a few weeks to try this stuff out anyway...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:35 am 
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I have that problem occasionally. What works for me is to loosen the rudder down line to completely slack while sailing and simply re-set it. I believe on my TI that while I'm sailing it slips a little in the cleat. It works fine after that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:34 am 
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Location: oki - jp
bikercraig wrote:
I have that problem occasionally. What works for me is to loosen the rudder down line to completely slack while sailing and simply re-set it. I believe on my TI that while I'm sailing it slips a little in the cleat. It works fine after that.


is this on the old rudder though, cuz this trick worked for me on the old rubber sometimes, but not on the new one at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:22 am 
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Update: All appears good now!
Yesterday, I stuck my iPhone inside my hull and took some video of the cables and levers. It appears that my rudder line was pinched against the hull by the rudder up/down controls. I pushed those up and they seemed to snap into a more comfortable spot higher in the hull.

Next, I replaced the last foot of line going out to the rudders. While there was no real problem with the stock waxy white cord, I had screwed them up myself. Suspecting that the line was slipping under the screw heads, I tied knots in the cords to keep them from slipping through the holes in the rudder. Unfortunately, the force of turning while sailing pulled the knots so tight that I could not undo them. To do any further adjusting, I needed to cut the line and replace it.

This meant pulling out the guide tubes and rethreading the new 2mm dia. IronWire line through. I found I could not get the line through the ID of the tiny o-rings inside the tubes - so I left those off. I had to disassemble the tubes (pull out the black plastic stuff) to get the line through.

I restrung and adjusted my stainless steel add-on turnbuckles (inside the rear hatch) to their longest position. I then pulled the lines taught and used the screws to secure the rudder lines again.

On my test sail, the rudder turned perfectly and definitely felt like it was more responsive. I also have about 1-1/2" of travel available in the turnbuckles to tighten up the lines - although they did not seem to need it after my first sail.

I'm sure those O-rings were not in there by accident. There was no abnormal water leakage on my first sail (I always end up with a few inches of water in the hull anyway - a problem to tackle next.)

I'm happy and expect the TI is ready for the summer.


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