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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Hello,

Looking to get into Hobie sailing. I have a background as an advanced windsurfer and kiteboarder, but the only "boat" I've had the chance to sail was a sunfish when I was a kid.

I will be sailing on a medium sized inland lake.

I've done a bit of research, and I'm trying to decide between purchasing a "Wave" or "16"

Forgive me if this has been discussed extensively in prior posts, but I would be very interested in your recommendations.

Cheers,

Ryan


Last edited by sauer on Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:54 pm 
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There are lots of factors involved, and you'll find various preferences.
They're different boats for different purposes. Sort of like asking "Should I get a Jeep or a Corvette." You need to tell us what kind of sailing you hope to do, what you want to spend, sail solo or friends & family aboard, etc...
Speed: H16 wins. Simplicity: Wave wins. Cheaper used: H16 wins. Cheaper new: Wave wins. I could go on and on.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:46 am 
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Location: Buffalo, NY
I've sailed both for years. 16 = fiberglass construction, Wave = rototmold and in theory a more durable hull. Tough to beat the performance of the 16. Yet I do own a H18 also but that's not part of this discussion.

My Wave has the backrests and the jib kit. I've used the jib once and found it more of a hassle than a benefit to the performance of the boat. The jib on the 16 has much more of a purpose. On the other hand, the backrests on the Wave come in handy when you want added support and a casual sailing experience.

Sailing solo or with others should also be considered. I've sailed the Wave with three and it'll move but don't expect the sport like ride that the 16 will provide.

Again, as mentioned already, depends on your budget, the type of sailing you want to do, etc. Another option might be to shop around for used H14 turbo which is a 14' fiberglass with a jib.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:32 am 
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If you do your sailing solo in BIG wind go with the Wave, but if you want to sail with friends & family get the 16. I LOVE my Wave!




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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:18 pm 
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How big is the "midsize lake?" Do you have a couple of miles in any direction? Is your reach at least a mile in typical wind directions? Since you are an "advanced" windsurfer (short board, sinker, 5.0 sail or smaller and over powered),you will want the 16 as an entry boat. Consider racing, you will learn more of the details faster and you will be better for it. If no racing is close, make the drive. My bet is your 16 days will be limited to how long it takes to save the money for a Wildcat. Best wishes on the new adventure.

Hey, you don't mention your height or weight. Remember for racing you want to be near 295 for combined skipper and crew weight. Minimum weight is fast even in high winds, you just depower. These are the details you will pick up quickly around the racing crew, and most are willing to share the secrets.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:13 am 
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Location: Syracuse, NY
I agree with Hammond, I love the way he goes right into a racing spiel :)

If you are a board sailor, you'll grow out of the Wave pretty quickly. It's not the speed machine the 16 is. Other great points, used cost verse new. If you can, buy a new Wave sail it for a season, sell it, than buy a used 16.

Crew is USUALLY an issue with the 16. I find I sail more often cause I don't need a crew.

Find a Fleet in your area, best way to get into Hobies :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:12 am 
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Mimi Appel wrote:
If you are a board sailor, you'll grow out of the Wave pretty quickly. It's not the speed machine the 16 is.

That is like saying an Air Force fighter pilot could not have fun flying a propeller plane. Both are great fun in different ways. You don't have to have a Lamborghini to have fun, sometime a Jeep is more fun!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:47 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Creative wrote:
Mimi Appel wrote:
If you are a board sailor, you'll grow out of the Wave pretty quickly. It's not the speed machine the 16 is.

That is like saying an Air Force fighter pilot could not have fun flying a propeller plane. Both are great fun in different ways. You don't have to have a Lamborghini to have fun, sometime a Jeep is more fun!


Exactly!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:41 pm 
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I learned to sail on a 16 and loved it. I now have a Wave and love it! Why a Wave now?
1. then I was sailing with others whereas now I sail alone, and the 16 is a (censored) to right solo
2. then I was sailing in 15 knot tradewinds, now 20 knots is more common, and the Wave is easier to handle in higher winds

Both are awesome boats, it's a matter of horses for courses. I have the jib kit and
mainsheet traveller on my Wave and find that both improve performance. If you choose the Wave and are willing to pay the extra, I'd get these options, if only because you can learn a lot more about sailing if you have two sails and can control the sheeting angle on the main.

Good luck!

stuart

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:07 pm 
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I just noticed this at the top of the "active topics" and it reminded me of something that happened earlier today.

I was sailing my Bravo when a virtually brand new 16 trailered up to the shore. They launched the boat, and began to rig it. I must have sailed for a good half hour before the 16 was finally rigged and set sail. The 16 sailed away from where I was sailing.

A couple hours later, the 16 was returning to shore. On 3 beam reaches in a row, I was the faster boat. The 16 had 2 adults on it and I was solo on my Bravo. I'm a self taught sailer, but I was clearly out sailing the 16.

Now don't get me wrong, the 16 was out there moving for a few runs on the other side of the lake from me, and it's definitely the faster boat. But I thought to myself, that guy spent a lot of money on a boat that he obviously doesn't know how to sail.

The crew (who was clearly a passenger, not crew) on the 16 was very impressed with the fact that I could move as quickly as I did, and could fly a hull with ease.

As the 16 was coming in, a Wave set up on shore. They were rigged and sailing in 10 minutes.

The argument could be made that the 16 is a boat that you can never grow out of, and certainly that's a fair argument. But boats like the Wave (and Bravo) are so simple to rig, a snap to right, and so enjoyable to sail, that you may find yourself out on the water a little bit more.

I know if I had a 16, I wouldn't sail nearly as much. The complexity of rigging alone would cause me to second guess if I'm really ready to sail that day.

With the Bravo, if it's not windy enough, it's no big deal, I rigged in minutes, gave it a try, and came in. If it's very windy, it's no big deal, if I tip, I'll right it and keep on learning.

Different people like different things, but to me, watching that 16 sail so slowly seemed like such a waste of a boat. There's nothing wrong with starting small, and really getting an idea of what sailing is like before you move up to your next boat.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Hey Augaug
Good to hear from you other again since when we conversed on the Island Forum.
I agree with you - different strokes for different folks.
I've sailed Hobie 16 mostly as crew or on a rental basis. Yup they are the classic that made the Cat in Hobie's name.
However they can have same nasty habits unless the Crew is as sharp as a shot of Cayenne with a shot of Crown Royal in heavy weather:
When pushed beyond what is 'normal', they can pitchpole. If the person reading this that started this post, that means the boat's bow(s) dig into the water and do a 180 degree into the drink flipping the unlucky crew into a rather nasty position.
My point, the Hobie 16 is not a beginner's boat unless the conditions are less than harsh. To prevent this trait, Hobie sells a set of foils that attach to the bows of the 16: (from Page 22 of their sail accessory Catalogue)
"ANTI PITCH POLE HYDRO FOIL
A simple bow plane that attaches to the bow tang bolt. As the bow starts to dive the bow plane's 55 square inches of surface comes in contact with the water and halts the submerging of the bow before the deck goes under water. Easy to install or remove for racing. Makes sailing a lot more fun for the recreational sailor.
30110 H14/16 Pair

Until the perfect boat is invented, we'll just have to make compromises. So far, I don't mind compromising in the least

Trinomite

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
sauer wrote:
Hello,

Looking to get into Hobie sailing. I have a background as an advanced windsurfer and kiteboarder, but the only "boat" I've had the chance to sail was a sunfish when I was a kid.

I will be sailing on a medium sized inland lake.

I've done a bit of research, and I'm trying to decide between purchasing a "Wave" or "16"

Forgive me if this has been discussed extensively in prior posts, but I would be very interested in your recommendations.

Cheers,

Ryan


Hey Ryan
I'm just about to buy a Wave or a SmartKat from Europe at a highly 'inflated' price. Yup it's either the Hobie (and I already own a Hobie Adventure Island Sailyak) or a 100 lb inflatable Cat from Austria that can be broken down to 2, 6 foot travel bags for airline travel.
Regarding the Wave, it's a far easier boat to redirect your love for sailing on the minimal. If you have windsurfed and kiteboarded, you may find the Wave a bit tame on the long term, but if you tackle a 16, I suggest that you get someone who can help you through the learning curve. (Recall the first time you lost your trainer kite and got a big kite to pull you up on a plane...)
It's all about what you personally want out of your sailing experience.
To get an idea, maybe a rental for either boat might be a good idea.
On another 'tack' would you buy a horse without giving it a good ride to learn it's personality?

Tri

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:51 pm 
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Re: what Trinomite said, I've pitchpoled a Hobie 16 and a Wave, and most people i know who sail a Hobie have done the same at least once. Although it's a bit exciting the first time, you're unlikely to hurt yourself and IMHO pitchpoling is part of the fun!

Stuart

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:28 am 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
stuart-melbourne wrote:
Re: what Trinomite said, I've pitchpoled a Hobie 16 and a Wave, and most people i know who sail a Hobie have done the same at least once. Although it's a bit exciting the first time, you're unlikely to hurt yourself and IMHO pitchpoling is part of the fun!

Stuart


Hey Stuart
The first time I dumped a 16 was when I rented one on Okanagan Lake in the Interior of BC, Canada 35 years ago on a wacky 'breeze on - breeze off' kind of day. I turtled the stupid boat because the pulleys got stuck due to greed and lack of maintenance by the vendor. It took two powerboats to assist in getting the damn thing back upright. I didn't get hurt but I was pissed as hell at the vendor for charging me full price for a poorly maintained vessel.
In truth, I've had a blast sailing the 16 since then but it was with my brother who was a better sailor than I was at the time. That was a long time ago, but a lot of our experiences are based on the past.
However my brother was also a working member of the Canadian Coast Guard. He told me a story about a rescue that didn't turn out that well for a Hobie 16 that pitchpoled with both crew on the wire in conditions that were WAY over their heads....
Enough said
Cheers M8
Tri

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:59 am 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Ryan
A few terms that you may not be aware of:
'on the wire' a Hobie 16 (and the Wave) can be outfitted with a wire cable system (trapeze) that connects the forward crew (usual) or both crew to allow maximum body leverage to be almost at the same angle as the deck. The harness that you wear is designed with a quick release button.

'Way over their head' people doing sheit that now seems to be glorified on youtube when they would be better off learning from more experienced people on how to sail in Advanced Conditions (imho)

Either way, Ryan, no matter what boat you choose, one will be easier; the other one will take a bit more time until you achieve expert status.

In my humble opinion, it's all worth it, cause in the end it's not the most toys or money...Whoever can pass on with a huge smile on their face due to the most fun had in their lives - WINS!

Tri

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