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 Post subject: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:06 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Olathe, KS
Last Sunday I was sailing my 1989 H18SX with my Dad and ended up capsizing about 5 minutes into the session. The previous Friday I had attempted a fix of my Port Hull which has a crack on the outside seam where the deck meets the side at the rear cross bar location. Basically under the lip of the overhang area which is hard to see up in. I tried a red neck fix using West Systems Six10 Thickened Epoxy Adhesive to seal the crack from the outside. The Sunday sail was the first test of my work. When we went over the port hull was in the water. The wind was blowing 15-20 mph and was gusty. By the time we got to stand on the hull the mast was pointing down wind. During our efforts to make sure the sails were un-cleated, righting line deployed, and getting the mast pointed 45 degrees off the wind we could already tell the port hull was taking on water. We are a light crew so I knew we were going to need help getting her righted. Luckily our chase boat from the local sailing club came to our rescue. With much effort we got the boat righted and towed in. Getting the boat back on the trailer at the boat ramp was a big challenge seeing as the port hull was full of water. Once we winched it up I could see water coming out of the crack at a pretty good clip.

My issue now is getting some advice on whether or not my boat can even be fixed. I know most fiberglass issues can be fixed pretty easily but this seam area seems like it would be very hard to fix. Even if there was a way to drill and inject some epoxy equivalent to what was used during the boats manufacture, could I ever be reasonably secure that it was not going to result in a catastrophic failure. With hindsight we got pretty lucky this time that there was not a catastrophic failure.

Has anyone encountered this issue with their Hobie? If so were you able to fix it? Any advice is welcomed.

Thanks

Paul

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Paul

82 Hobie 18 with SX rig and seats
"POWERCAT 2"
http://www.fleet297.org


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:28 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2553
Location: Jersey Shore
This sounds like the type of cracking that is occasionally found on H18s from that era (any pics?).  The inside corner of the hull/deck joint where the hull comes up and turns out cracks near the crossbar connections.  I recommend you give all the crossbar connections a careful inspection since it is likely that others may have a similar issue.

Trying to squirt some epoxy resin into the crack will not work as you found out, it is no where near strong enough.  You need to sand/grind out the crack at a taper and laminate new glass in that area.  This is not the easiest thing to do due to the small space, but it's the only way to restore strength to the area - it needs to be glassed.  Be sure the glass you add does not prevent you from installing the crossbar anchor plate.  

You should also seriously consider installing access ports behind the rear crossbar.  This will allow you to glass the hull on the inside.  You want to add a patch of glass that bonds the side of the hull to the deck.  The access port will also allow you to install the front crossbar anchor plate upgrades to the rear crossbar (these are the same stainless steel plates used at the shrouds and front crossbar connections, they have four bolts that pass through the side of the hull).

There is no quick fix for this damage.  It is a fairly involved project, but it can be fixed.  When you're done glassing the hull and adding the updated anchor plates, the hull will be stronger than it was when new.

sm


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:28 am 
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 8:28 am
Posts: 684
Location: Clinton Lake, KS
I have some video of you in the water :? as we circled around...


Sorry I couldn't jump off and help! my daughter was pretty nervous in the conditions..


Do you want me to take a look at it when I am out there this weekend? I am pretty handy with fiberglass...


If nothing else.. My 18 is sitting here at the house not getting any use if you want to get on the water..


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:06 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Olathe, KS
SRM,

I had a port installed several years ago to install the anchor plate upgade. Doing glass work in such a small area where the crack is would definately be more than I could tackle. I will try and get a picture posted this evening.

Ron,

You are more than welcome to take a look at the crack when you are out there next. I would like to see the footage of us sinking. Not on Youtube of course!

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Paul

82 Hobie 18 with SX rig and seats
"POWERCAT 2"
http://www.fleet297.org


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:05 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
So you added the upgraded crossbar anchor plates to the rear crossbar and it still cracked? Or was it cracked first and then you added the plates?

sm


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 8:28 am
Posts: 684
Location: Clinton Lake, KS
Powercat wrote:
SRM,

I had a port installed several years ago to install the anchor plate upgade. Doing glass work in such a small area where the crack is would definately be more than I could tackle. I will try and get a picture posted this evening.

Ron,

You are more than welcome to take a look at the crack when you are out there next. I would like to see the footage of us sinking. Not on Youtube of course!



hehehe Ok.. Not on Youtube..


just let me know next time you are going to be out there and I will bring the laptop and a SD card..

I didn't get that great of footage of ya because I only did a couple fly by's... But after you get it upright you can sure see how low it was riding in the water...



After the incident John E and I had last year where the pylon shoe busted through the side of my old 16 in the middle of November with big air and 59 degree water.... and we had lots of trouble righting it because of the water sloshing around in the hull... I figured once you had it up you were going to be alright..


But that boat must have been plum full of water... and the southern most opening to the breakwater was upwind of your position.. You guys were sunk.. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:06 pm
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Location: Olathe, KS
srm wrote:
So you added the upgraded crossbar anchor plates to the rear crossbar and it still cracked? Or was it cracked first and then you added the plates?

sm



It was cracked first but not very bad. That is when the plates were done. I had the Hobie dealer I used to deal with do the work.

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Paul

82 Hobie 18 with SX rig and seats
"POWERCAT 2"
http://www.fleet297.org


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
Pics would be helpful.

Since you already have the ports installed, I would probably focus on repairing the inside. Get a good size fiberglass patch inside to bridge the crack and connect the hull to the deck. I'm surprised that it would crack after the upgraded anchor plate was installed, especially at the rear crossbar.

sm


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:06 pm
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Location: Olathe, KS
srm wrote:
Pics would be helpful.

Since you already have the ports installed, I would probably focus on repairing the inside. Get a good size fiberglass patch inside to bridge the crack and connect the hull to the deck. I'm surprised that it would crack after the upgraded anchor plate was installed, especially at the rear crossbar.

sm


SRM

Here is a picture of the cross bar connection area. You can clearly see the redneck fix. The part of the crack that was leaking the most was just to the left of the picture up under the lip.

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

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Paul

82 Hobie 18 with SX rig and seats
"POWERCAT 2"
http://www.fleet297.org


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 8:28 am
Posts: 684
Location: Clinton Lake, KS
Here is a view of what you need fixed..


viewtopic.php?f=13&t=42316


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 Post subject: Re: Father's Day leak
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:28 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2553
Location: Jersey Shore
That looks like the "standard" hull cracking that I've seen. You need to get all of that epoxy that you squirted in the crack out of there. That's the first thing.

Fixing will probably be easiest with the boat disassembled. You need to remove the anchor plate, grind out the cracks (dremmel tool) and get as much glass on the outside as you can while still being able to install the anchor plate. The anchor plate is doing the majority of holding the boat together at this point. Then glass the inside of the hull as previously described to connect the hull to the deck.

The other thing that I'd be worried about (maybe more worried about even) is that it looks like there's a crack at the actual crossbar bolt hole that goes completely through the deck lip. If that's the case, that one is going to take a serious amount of grinding and fiberglassing because you basically need to rebuild the lip in that area. The good news is that with that crack, you don't really have an space constraints.

I would get this damage fixed properly before sailing the boat.

sm


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