Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:09 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:19 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Hi all,
When sailing upwind, my husband loves to sail close hauled, while I like the close reach. We've had lots of discussions about which is better on a gusty day, when in a pinch, you need to spill the wind off the sail. In a close hauled position, it is easy in a gust, just to head into the wind, to reduce the amas from going under. (he loves the heeling of close hauled). However, in a close reach, the amas do not submerge as readily, and that makes me feel better, yet in gusty wind, what is recommended to spill the sail in a close reach? Sailing toward the point of sail, or away from it? Also, in a beam reach, although I've read you can go really fast, he feels it is the most unsafe sailing position, as we are broad to the wind, so he feels in a gust it wouldn't take much to flip over our TI. Is the TI responsive enough to simply turn downwind in a gust, or before we could turn the boat, would it really flip over? I won't sail in winds over 14knots, but do sail on a lake where white caps are present in anything over 8 knots. I love sailing a broad reach, as going downwind, it is the most relaxed sail position, but I want to feel just as comfortable in a close reach. So, what's the best way to spill a gusty wind in a close reach?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:56 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2229
Location: Maui, Hawaii
Some ramblings that may help answer some of your questions:

The TI (and AI) have weather-helm which means in a strong gust, the boat will turn by itself into the wind, ether close-hauled or close-reach. (safety feature)

On a reach, if a strong gust starts blowing the boat over, as it starts leaning over, most of the wind will dump out of the sail, stopping it from being blown completely over in all but the strongest gusts.

It would take a very, very strong gust to blow one of our boats over, without help from larger waves. A 5-6 foot wave is large enough if in the exact wrong place, to help roll over an AI or TI.

Hobie Tramps can make an AI or TI roll in far less wind then without them, unless someone is out on them on the windward side keeping them down.

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:35 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Thanks! - I sail on a lake that is 3 miles long and a mile and a half wide, so there are no 5 or 6 ft waves. Even motorboat waves are no more than 3 ft. I would guess. I did notice the weather helm on close hauled, and really like that feature, but didn't realize that the TI would do that on a close reach as well. :) I mean in a close haul, it's just a few inches and you can be in irons, but doesn't the boat have to turn a lot in a close reach to do the same thing?
I've watched plenty of your videos, and other sailors as well with their TI's. Lots have had their amas submerge. But I didn't know that the wind would spill, and weather helm would take place when there is a wind gust on a close reach. I guess I have to trust the TI more than I do. :wink:

While I have your attention, then, could you answer me one more thing?
In heavy wind, in a broad reach, where the wind is so high that the TI starts doing this dance where the waves under the boat are going faster than the boat itself, so the boat starts this rock and rolling, how do you spill the sail, or take it out of this motion to get control? The wind power is such that it is almost impossible to uncleat the sail, and when I have uncleated it, it is extremely hard to pull in the sail so it will go in irons. I have gone directly downwind, but the wind has been very high that way too and hard to control. I have let the sail go out all the way, but with me being short, I have a knot at the end of it so I don't lose it, so even then, then sail is still in full push. What do you suggest?

_________________
New TI owner - having a ball!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:41 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1502
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
The simplest answer of all is simply to hold the sail sheet in your (or your husband's) hand, and instead of trying to react using the rudder (way too slow IMO), just let the sheet out to reduce pressure on the sail, and pull it back as the gust passes.

Sure it is more convenient to cleat the sheet when sailing, so you only have the rudder to deal with (which is most appropriate when sailing close hauled, as you use the rudder to sail "in the groove"), but when reaching, the idea is to steer the TI in a given direction, and adjust the sail trim to optimise speed, allowing for minor wind shifts as well as gusts. The telltales in the middle of the sail will guide you, adjust the sheet towards the telltale which isn't horizontal (eg if the telltale towards the centre of the TI is drooped, pull in the sheet gently until it starts to flow, and vice versa.

It sounds complicated, but you will soon get the hang of it.. Maybe you can work a deal with your husband... when reaching, he steers and you trim the sail - teamwork can be fun!

PS. you just posted some more, so I will add a bit to mine. If you are finding the effort to adjust the mainsheet too much, you might like to change from 2to1 to 3to1, which will reduce the effort by 33%. However, this then means that sail trim is only possible from one seat, so it has to be decided by which seat one of you might sail the TI solo. (see your manual for how to change the system). I would also recommend you get some sailing gloves too, which will improve your capability to trim the sail in stronger winds.

I would also strongly recommend that you experiment with partial furling (reefing) of the sail... I have successfully sailed my TI in stronger winds with no more than 3 feet of sail out from the mast! (Not fast, but easily under control...) Try it, and you might find you can go faster by reducing sail area and avoiding burying an ama, which really slows you down.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


Last edited by tonystott on Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
I like that idea. :)

_________________
New TI owner - having a ball!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2229
Location: Maui, Hawaii
The AI is pretty easy to control in that situation with the smaller sail and stiffer mast. With the TI, you may have to turn the boat into the wind to reef. I don't usually sail the TI in winds over 15 knots for that very reason. Also, my TI is rigged 3:1 and it still doesn't help much because the mast bends too much in strong winds to reef. I'm still looking for a better solution myself. :)

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:07 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Ahhh I see, ok. I was afraid if I turned it into the wind to reef the sail, that it would overwhelm the sail and I would do one of those pitch pole-ing capsizes. But if you think it won't do that, I will do that next time the wind is too high on a broad reach, so I can furl the sail.
Thanks!

_________________
New TI owner - having a ball!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:17 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2229
Location: Maui, Hawaii
To my knowledge, and please anyone speak up to correct me, no one has ever pitch-poled an AI or TI except in surf (launch or landing). Never by wind gust only.

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:48 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2714
Location: Kailua 96734
(Close -when gybing without warning and riding far out on the Hakas, but no cigar).

Crescendo34, when the wind fills the sail of the TI, you'll find it hard to furl or steer the boat. Yes you can turn into the wind and it gets 50% easier.

OR, you can maintain course and release most of the sheet, letting the sail clew fall sideways, downwind of the boat. It thus spills the air and you can furl, then unfurl to the proper trim.

You may get a messier furl this way, but you won't have to deal with course changes at the same time, or get caught in irons.

Try it both ways. These are good skills to know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:22 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Thanks Nohuhu, will do! I appreciate all your help everyone. :)

_________________
New TI owner - having a ball!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group