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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:50 pm 
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My father in law recently purchased a tandem island and we have all been having a blast. Today the winds piped up to aro 15 knots. When it was being sailed by two people no problems only fun. But when single handed the boat consistently rounded up and had trouble coming through the wind. Eventually he had to sail backwards into the lee of an island and use the mirage drive to power him through the wind.

Has anyone else experienced this and any suggestions on overcoming this problem when sailing alone?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:58 pm 
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I don't have one, haven't sailed one, and therefore am not qualified to answer. However, it seems to me that it must have something to do with trim. More weight, either fore or aft, should fix it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
I sail my TI solo, and yes, in stronger winds it can be difficult to tack through the wind, as you lose momentum quite quickly. Usually I just pedal with the Miragedrive to keep forward motion. If the thing actually starts going backwards, if reversing the rudder, the bow can be swung back to where it is possible to proceed on the new direction.

If all else fails, follow the example of a friend with a trailer-sailer catamaran which cannot tack to windward, and "wear the ship", which is a sometimes forgotten manouvre which old-time sailing ships did as a normal practice. In this manouvre, instead of trying to cross the eye of the wind, the kayak swings AWAY from the wind, and keeps turning through 270 degrees until it is on the new course. If this is done neatly, little ground is lost compared to a conventional tack.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Forgot to put the dagger down?

This is the first mate's job, right?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
Lily it wrote:
My father in law recently purchased a tandem island and we have all been having a blast. Today the winds piped up to aro 15 knots. When it was being sailed by two people no problems only fun. But when single handed the boat consistently rounded up and had trouble coming through the wind. Eventually he had to sail backwards into the lee of an island and use the mirage drive to power him through the wind.

Has anyone else experienced this and any suggestions on overcoming this problem when sailing alone?


The TI sails best solo from the rear seat, when the winds pickup to 25-30 I move to the middle of the boat, kneeing over the rear crossbar. To tack in high winds, you need to come off the wind a little and build up some speed, maybe opening up the sail a little too. Then, throw the rudder hard over, pull in the sail, once though the eye of the wind, let the sail out, pick up speed, and bear up to the wind again. I hold the sheet in my hand to adjust sail angle as needed. I almost never gybe, you lose a LOT of altitude gybing, and in the TI and AI we don't go to windward so well that we have altitude to spare (where altitude equals distance upwind).

Some peddling with the mirage drive may be necessary in winds over 20-25, otherwise I have the drive pulled and the plugs in.

I also tend to run more sail than is recommended by Hobie and this forum, but when the ama is fully submerged, it's time to furl.

Cheers,

J

:edit: ps, I was surprised to find that the centerboard is relatively unnecessary in stronger winds, as long as the ama is buried, it sails well. Better down, but not necessary.

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2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


Last edited by kayakman7 on Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:21 am 
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Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
I once spent a day doing lots of gybes and tacks in my AI in 10-12 knot winds. From analyzing the GPS tracks, I came to the conclusion that a successful tack leaves you 35-45 seconds further upwind than a gybe. That's a lot of time to lose in a race, but well worth it if you simply can't complete a tack.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:12 am 
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Location: Palm City, Florida
kayakman7 wrote:
:edit: ps, I was surprised to find that the centerboard is relatively unnecessary in stronger winds, as long as the ama is buried, it sails well. Better down, but not necessary.


Very interesting :wink: , I''ll have to try that one. I've raised my centerboard on a straight downwind tack and found a slight increase in speed.

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Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:04 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Racing yachts with lift keels often raise them when the wind is behind the beam for two reasons; less drag, and less chance of the boat "tripping over it", instead sliding sideways when hit with a large wave from the side. I suspect Islands gain similar benefits, and I always lift my centreboard in those conditions

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:43 am 
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I do remove my daggerboard going downwind in lighter winds, but purposely keep it down in stronger winds or larger waves as it dampens any sudden change of direction, pitch even gusts, giving more time to react and keep control.

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
sun E sailor wrote:
kayakman7 wrote:
:edit: ps, I was surprised to find that the centerboard is relatively unnecessary in stronger winds, as long as the ama is buried, it sails well. Better down, but not necessary.


Very interesting :wink: , I''ll have to try that one. I've raised my centerboard on a straight downwind tack and found a slight increase in speed.


Just to be clear, I was referring to a close reach. I think it is slightly faster to run downwind sans centerboard.

j

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:06 am 
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Location: Kailua 96734
I guess this would be more challenging for the solo TI sailor to adjust, if he's rigged into the back seat.

I micromanage my dagger constantly on the AI, but on the TI, even from the front, I tend to ignore it completely. I never raise it unless we start a long downwinder. If there's swell to ride I'll keep it out at least 1/2 way.

I could be wrong, but my impression is that the TI responds less less to these adjustments than the smaller AI.

And because we ride the Hakas, leaving the dagger down probably helps, since we almost never bury the Amas.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:42 am 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
I had forgotten to put it down that day, otherwise I never touch it...

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:05 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 184
Location: Perth West Australia
I have to add that I mostly sail my TI solo (from the rear seat) and it is quite often well over 15 knots in the afternoon seabreze here in West Aus. I have often been caught out in 25 to 30 knots and the TI sails very well in these conditions if trimmed right. I have even had to run home once in well over 30 knots and gusts to 40 kn and a trip of 20 km across an open bay was a prety exciting ride.

I try to keep as much weight to the rear. Dagger board down, partly furl the sail as the wind increases over 20 knots.

As you mentioned, it will not point high into the wind when the wind speed is too strong and tends to overpower the rudder 'if you are under full sail'.

With the sail partly furled, it is no problem in strong winds. I also 'jibe' to go about, which as mentioned earlier is going about down wind rather than tyring to go about into the wind.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:20 am 
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Sitting in the aft seat on the TI tends to bring the bow out of the water and make it slam into the waves. In heavy winds heading into the wind, I found that sitting in the front makes the boat point a little better. The bow tends to provide some lateral resistance. It is a more wet ride. A slow peddle with the drive will maintain forward motion. 2011 EC I did this for ~22 hours (~70 miles) nonstop into a 20 knot headwind. Some people call that fun...

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DogsLife
2011 Adventure Island


http://dogslifeadventures.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:21 am 
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Location: Perth West Australia
DogsLife wrote:
Sitting in the aft seat on the TI tends to bring the bow out of the water and make it slam into the waves. In heavy winds heading into the wind, I found that sitting in the front makes the boat point a little better. The bow tends to provide some lateral resistance. It is a more wet ride. A slow peddle with the drive will maintain forward motion. 2011 EC I did this for ~22 hours (~70 miles) nonstop into a 20 knot headwind. Some people call that fun...


Hell, 22 hours of pedaling in windy conditions sounds prety grueling.

I agree with what you are saying about the bow slamming when into the wind and particularly with a short chopp.
My afternoon sail home is usually with the wind behind so the back seat is good. I mostly do short trips out when it is going to get windy in the afternoon comming home.

So DogsLife, you probably have more experience with longer trips and windy conditions, what do you think would be getting up to the maximum safe wind speed for a TI. Assuming things are well set up.

I watched the bend in the mast even with the sail furled more than halfway, when I had gusts over 30knots. When the bow and one arma were going underwater, she was getting a fair amount of mast bend and I was getting a bit concerned.

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