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 Post subject: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:10 pm 
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I have seen a few posts comparing the two boats. I happen to own both versions and have used them both quite a bit in a side by side comparison, in florida bays and off shore. They both have their advantages and disadvantages and I think both of them are great machines.

1. Seat PA 12 vantage seating is FANTASTIC! there is no other way to describe it. The only drawback is that there is a string that you have to detach and reattach every time you go to the stand up position. It works great! The PA 14 Seat is adequate and comfortable but no where near the PA 12

2. Standing PA 14 is far more stable and easier to cast from and to move around. The PA 12 is plenty stable enough however. Its best described as the PA 12 is like standing on a really stable Kayak, the PA 14 is like standing on the front of a Flats boat or bass boat It is noticeably much more stable.

3.Speed and ease of peddling. My first thought was the PA 12 would have to be easier to peddle and faster on the water, its smaller, lighter and less touching the water. Boy was I wrong! I couldn't believe how much slower the PA 12 was than the PA 14 and the amount of work it took to peddle it at a fast pace and it was noticeably more difficult. I couldn't believe it! So my unscientific method to determine if it was real or perception was for me to GPS my ground speed both inshore and offshore over a 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile and 1 mile distance at my most aggressive peddling pace. Over 9 trips comparing the two my perception was correct. at 1/4 mile the PA 14 was 17% faster, over a half mile the PA 14 was 23% faster and over a 1 mile trip the PA 14 was 32% faster. I know it was unscientific and not a controlled environment but it is probably directionally correct and can be used as a data point for others to try. for us older guys we don't want to have to work harder to get the far away hot spots. The PA 12 definitely will work you harder.

4. Turning sensitivity The PA 12 turned VERY quickly and is much more responsive then the PA 14. The PA 12 is the best turning Hobie that I have ever used. I also have a Revo 13, and a Revo 11 and I used to own and Outback. The only draw back to the quick turning of the PA 12 was it does not "track" very well when using the wind to drift a bank or when trying to get on a pinpoint location of a reef offshore. The PA 14 tracks better and stays on course better with minimal effort needed to adjust the steering while being blown in the wind. When fishing in the PA 12 I find myself having to adjust the steering more often, and it turns so easily you can just about forget standing up in it in even the slightest breezes.

5.Tackle Management PA14 does a nice job of tackle management but the door for the between the legs tackle box is a little awkward with interference from the seat (without modifications) The PA 12 is a much better design and much easier to use. The only drawback, it doesn't carry near as much tackle between the legs as the PA 14. Also the design of the PA 12 tackle area is flat when not in use which gives more room for standing or moving around in the boat. I like the PA 14 for the capacity of the tackle and the easily removed tackle holder so I can change out from offshore to inshore more easily. Im one of those guys that likes to bring all of my stuff, the minimalist will be fine with the PA 12.

6.Weight and size the weight of the PA 12 is about 20lbs less but its still a big boat to maneuver. There is not doubt, the lighter weight is an advantage but the Im not sure if the lighter weight is a good trade off for the lack of work required to peddle the PA 12 or the lack of stability and storage. The shorter length is much easier to maneuver both on and off the water but Im not sure its a real advantage given the speed and stability trade off.

7. Lowrance Ready WOW! what a terrific feature Hobie built into the PA 12. Its hands down the best Ive ever seen in a self peddled water craft. Its so easy, takes less than an hour and the install is beautiful! PA 14 doesn't even come close on ease of installation and fit and finish of the installed finder, particularly if a DSI feature is used.

8.Overall Room and Storage PA 14 is easily the best personal fishing craft ever built for storage, stability, and overall size. Its a perfect fishing machine!

9.OVERALL SUMMARY I think both boats are really advanced technologically and are two of the best Fishing Specialized crafts ever made. However, Day in and Day out the PA 14 is a friendlier serious fishing machine for the simple reasons of , Overall room, ease of peddling , speed of peddling, tracking, stability and tackle and rod management. The PA 12 shines with the Vantage seating, Lowrance ready feature, being smaller and more nimble and is an excellent fishing craft for the minimalist and for smaller bodies of water. I will probably continue to use the PA 12 for small lakes, farm ponds, and difficult to access areas. I will stick to my PA 14 for stalking the flats for specks and reds and trolling 2-3 miles offshore and fishing reefs.

If Hobie would make the PA 14 with vantage seating and Lowrance ready and redo the tackle management area in the center of the boat, they would have the Ultimate Fishing Craft! for all bodies of water. I will continue to compare and post my own findings. Its like anything else, " everyone has an opinion.

If I could only have one Pro Angler and I fished inshore and offshore I would have a PA 14. If I fished primarily fresh water lakes and ponds I would be purchasing the PA 12. I hope this helps any of you trying to make a decision between the two crafts. If nothing else, I hope it points you in the direction to make your own comparisons on the issues I pointed out.


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:14 pm
Posts: 123
Nice report. Thanks for taking the time to share hte info.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:28 am 
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Your speed comparison is really interesting - what I've experienced is the opposite.
I've pedalled both craft and felt the PA12 was a bit speedier.
I went head to head with my brother, who was using a PA14 and we matched pedal cadence as best we could. We would start right next to each other and I would start pulling ahead slightly.

Keep in mind that this was at a very low speed, probably 2-3mph range.

Also I have a good 40 lbs on my brother.

I will agree that the PA14 seems more stable when standing up - but I upgraded to the PA12 from a Native Ultimate and the stability of the two platforms is similar. I don't feel comfortable standing on the PA12 facing to the side - but facing forward I notice minimal rock and don't have to correct my balance much at all.

Also notice that the Vantage seat position decreases stability significantly. If the water is choppy and you're gunning it, a sharp turn could capsize the boat. No such issues when riding in the lowered position.


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:19 pm
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I was really surprised on the speed and ease of paddling on the PA 14 vs PA12 too. I was so shocked by my GPS readings that I talked to a marine engineer that designs and builds sail boats to see if it was possible. Not only did he say it was possible but he said its is almost certain. For some reason the larger craft if designed correctly will always be faster and easier to propel. He gave examples of offshore boats, and sail boats that are faster and easier to propel based on the size up to a limit.

Like I said in my original post, its just a data point based solely on my own unscientific data. I will tell you though that others are having the same experience was they graph it.


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:52 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Austin, TX
Gatorling,

I agree. I guess this varies from person to person. I achieve quicker starts and top speed in my PA 12 vs my buddies Pa 14 on GPS. I know longer boats are typically faster, but the 14 is wider and weighs more. I also think for me, the 12 is easier to kick than the 14. Hallscreek, are you using the same pair of turbo fins in both boats? Again, I'm not doubting your data at all. Maybe weight and strength are a factor in this as well. I have no doubt that there are several folks who will achieve faster times in the bigger boat, just not me.


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:05 pm
Posts: 23
great post, I know they are selling many of the 12's now. I tried the 14 last week and it will push some water. Now, I am even more confused about the the choice between the two boats.


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:19 pm
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I am using the same set of fins on both boats.

In regards to which boat to purchase. You really need to fish out of both of them and make your own decision. Im fortunate enough to own both. However, as I stated in my original post, the decision is easy for me.

PA 14 for big water-So if you fish bays and offshore

PA12 for smaller water and hard to reach areas.-if you fish lakes, farm ponds and difficult to reach fresh water.

Other decision factors,
Do you plan on standing and fishing like in the case of site red fishing? If so The PA 14
If you are gonna sit most of the time, maybe the vantage seat in the PA 12

Do you take a lot of gear and not limit yourself on tackle space? IF so the PA 14
If you are more of a minimalist use the PA 12

Don't over look the ease of peddling obviously from this thread there is a difference of experience as to which boat is easier to peddle with less effort. I did some tests to confirm my perception. You should do your own test ride to decide whats best for you.

Do you use a stake out pole thru the scupper? The PA 14 allows you to use a scupper hole in front of you. in the PA12 you have to use a scupper hole "behind" you which is a little more of a hassle.

Do you keep fish and or use a fish bag? if so the PA 14 is more accommodating.

Do you ever fly fish? The added stability and room on the PA 14 would be a plus.


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:06 am
Posts: 94
Nice report. I have been looking to buy the 14. This helps since I will be doing more fishing BTB. This was helpful

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"The craft is a foot bigger at port and shrinks a foot at sea."

BentRodyakker
PA14
Rockaway Beach
Oregon


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:14 pm
Posts: 99
Location: Gales Ferry Connecticut
I have Both PA12 and PA 14. Both Yaks Handle exceptionally well. I think the either PA’s are a great choice for Ocean fishing. The Margin of Safety is the major advantage over other Yaks. The PA 14 is more stable when standing; however the PA12 is just as stable when seated.

I think one of the biggest considerations has to do with weight. Handling the Yak when out of the water. The PA14 (138) weighs about 40 more lbs than the PA12 (98). I think this becomes a major issue in choosing between a PA 12 and 14.

Both are great Yaks (Boats) I use both for Mothershipping.

“Life is Good”

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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:49 pm
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Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Thanks for the great post with excellent comparisons.
I also have owned both 12 and 14 at the same time.
I have recently sold the 14 as I didn't feel the need to keep 2 units that would do an equally excellent job.
The crunch for me was loading/unloading.
The 12 is just that bit lighter and easier for me to deal with.
I'm getting older, slower, weaker and dumber I think :roll: :roll:
I only fish near shore (half mile) usually. Also lakes.
The 14 is definately more stable, though I don't have an issue with the 12 as I don't stand up at all if I can help it as I suffer a bit from dizziness :oops:
I find the 12 more nimble which is a great advantage when going back over interesting ground, returning to a mark or altering boat position while bring fish up on my correct landing side.
Rod storage is no problem as I only take out 3 at any one time, one for trolling, mounted to starboard, bottom rod/rig in holder on port side and one spare.
I have reduced the amount of gear taken out with the 12, though by only a small margin. I actually prefer the "less is more" approach.
It's very easy to load half your "worldly" possessions on a 14, but really, there is no need.
I think the larger forward hatch size on the 14 is very important if you are into catching big fish and have to store them. Having said that, additional weight up front has a negative effect on handling. I would prefer a more central catch store/kill tank in any craft if design and dimensions permitted.
I totally agree with pretty much all you have said, especially the stand up fishing process.
As for speed. I don't consider that an issue at all. I'm there to fish, not race.
I love the PA's. They are truly the best fishing platforms around at this stage.
Cheers from Rod in Hobart, Tasmania.


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:14 pm
Posts: 99
Location: Gales Ferry Connecticut
RodRocket,

I share many of your thoughts, I like having two yaks when guest come fishing. This year I was able to do some “Mothership” events. Next year their will be many more.

Tight lines

Tim

PS I had the privilege to visit Hobart years ago, It was great…

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Fishing is not a matter of life or death... It's much more important than that!


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:49 pm
Posts: 47
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Hey Tim,
I would have loved to keep both but alas, I coudn't justify the cost, though freinds visiting love to kayak :(
re Hobart. If you ever come here again please let's know.
You'd be most welcome to come visit. I'll take you to a few great yakking/fishing spots, salt and fresh :D
Jill and I live 10 mins South from City centre right on the water looking out through Storm Bay. Hinsby Beach to be precise.
It's a beautiful place with countless waterways, lakes etc.
Stay safe Tim. "Sandy" looks downright deadly.....
Best regards, Rod :D


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:14 pm
Posts: 99
Location: Gales Ferry Connecticut
Rod,

Thanks, We survived "Sandy" 4 days without power, cable, phone, internet. (Back to basics)

Tim

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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:10 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Hi guys. Thanks for a great article . I will be up grading from an outback , and have been confused about a PA 14 or PA 12 . My fishing is split between off shore DANIA BEACH and Florida canals . The PA 12 is my first choice , but I have been worried about standing ( I'm 6ft 2" 200 lbs ) I'm not worried about the weight moving the boat on and off the beach , or onto a trailer . After all that operation is ???? What 10 min ,where as fishing is 4 ,5 , or 6 hours , so fish ability is my criterion .
Your posts sorted out and eliminated my worries THANKS


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 Post subject: Re: PA 12 vs PA 14
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:14 pm
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Location: Gales Ferry Connecticut
I think it boils down to: "If you are nimble enough to stand in a PA 14, A PA 12 will serve you well" I often think of my PA 12 as an Outback on steroids...lol

Tim

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