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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:47 am
Posts: 75
Location: Texas Gulf Coast/Dallas, Texas
Hey Fusion, glad your back in business. I haven't had time to rig the screacher on my AI yet but still planning on it when I get time.

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"Riding The Island Wind" RIPIT (Tim)
'08 Red Hibiscus AI w/2013 replacement hull, Lovin' it!!!
'11 Golden Papaya AI (for a chap)
'10 Outback w/sail
'11 Tarpon 160


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:16 am 
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Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia
Hi fusion, loved reading this inspirational post. Thank you.
I have an AI and am negotiating to add a TI to the fleet. For those not so handy as yourself, might the hydrofoil effect (reducing nosedive) be as easily accomplished by a bow deflector such as used on some surf skis (see footage of one here on an AI)? I can buy one of these for about $50 and install with sikaflex (i.e. no holes drilled). This would likely interfere with installation of a bow sprit.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:19 am 
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Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia
my message disappeared, apparently pending moderator approval and I cannot recall if i pasted the link to the video with bow deflector - so here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUSocAYaueo


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Location: sarasota,fl
Cam:
The best bow deflector I have seen so far is Nohuhu's on his Kahikolu boat(batboat) Here is a link ( http://www.hobiecat.comwww.hobiecat.com ... 2&start=15 )

My opinion this design helps deflect waves coming over the bow, and provides lift if the bow dives, but is soft and only sticks out in front of the boat a tiny bit (would actually fit nicely under my bow sprit).

With my foils even when they are not engaged they do make a little drag (more when they are engaged). Actually I didn't put any of the foils on my new boat, and have not had a problem yet. I think I am going to fashion something like what Hohuhu has.

One problem I do have is because I have so much sail area, if the bow does nose dive it doesn't come back up again (what I call nautilus mode), that why I made the foils in the first place, I think Nohuhu's design would eliminate the need for the foils.

The way I plan to make mine is to go to walmart and buy a large white cutting board (1/4 inch thick x 12" x 18" or larger). They are white HDPE polyethylene and very strong. I'm going to cut a V shape out that fits around the bow. Then use a torch or heat gun to heat the cutting board while it is sitting on the side of a barrel (like a 40 gallon metal barrel, or whatever I can find that is similar), once The PE heats up it will conform to the round shape making a nice bend pointing downward at the back. I would then contour the outside to follow the hull shape and make it look nice.

On my boat I would just trap the deflector under my bow sprit. If I didn't have the bow sprit, I would form a piece of aluminum (1/8" thick x 6 inches long and 2 inches wide) with a slit in it to fit over the front lifting lug, then put a key or pin under the lug that traps the aluminum (holding the aluminum down). Then screw the polyethylene onto the aluminum (with stainless flat head screws). No modifications to the boat itself.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:04 am 
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Posts: 270
Location: Clearwater, Fl
fusioneng wrote:
CaptnChaos:

Here is a small video from my Iphone (it's kind of hard to video yourself LOL).

This was my first time out with the new boat, and there wasn't any wind that day (maybe 3-4 mph). I certainly didn't get wet from any waves anyway (completely flat out there). Fortunately with all that sail area pretty much any light wind and I can go one to one with the wind in light winds. And upwind if I pull the mainsail and jib very tight, then pedal lightly I can actually go upwind faster than the wind in very light winds. It apparently creates it own aparent wind when pedaling lightly, I have never seen this before, it's fun to sail past the bigger boats sitting in irons, they always call out to me saying I'm cheating. If I have the sails up while pedaling I go 3 or 4 mph against the wind, with no sails, just pedaling I go maybe 1-2 mph. The boat is rigged for the light summer winds around here.



Thanks for posting the video. I was out of town and just noticed your response. Hopefully I can get down to Sarasota Bay some time in August or September and meet up with you.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:43 am 
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Location: Texas Gulf Coast/Dallas, Texas
Hello CaptnChaos, Fusioneng and any others that want to chime in. As Fusion and some of you know I've been kicking around the thought of building a Jib/Screacher for my AI for about a year now.
CaptnChaos I noticed on the latest trip pics from Keith that you are running a Jib now also and I'm curious as to how the rig is working for you (it must be fairly good because Keith says your always in the lead).

First I'd like to explain my build plans;
I just replaced my Mylar cracked '08 AI sail with a new one, so I'm going to modify the old sail for this project.
I plan to make a rotating mast topper similar to Fusions without the line to the rear. Excuse my sailing language as I'm not a Capt. yet. I don't think I need the line to the rear because I'm not going the have the pressure of a Spinnaker and the Main sheet line should be handle the stress in the light winds this will be used in, I hope!!!
I plan on making a over size jib so it can be a screacher also.
The Jib/Screacher will furl also.
The sail will not have much, if any Asym to allow it to furl from Screacher position to Jib position without issues I have read about.
I'm not planning on using a bow sprint because the AI bow seems long enough plus I think I will have plenty of sail area without it.
I'm thinking about running a line or cable from either side of the bow back to the outer portion of the front Akas and back the the inner portion of the rear Akas for additional bow support.
I'm going to build a roller furling gennaker for the bottom of the Jib and a swivel on top. This should allow furling of both sails from the cockpit.
I'll be installing cleats on either side of the seat to hold the Jib sheet line.
I'm planning on adding some hooks near the end of the front Akas to assets in using the Screacher for downwind. I know since its not Asym it won't be a Spinnaker but I'll take any help.
I am planning to add the reinforced pad eye to the bow similar to Fusion.

Questions I have;
I saw a you tube video (floridarobot, this may be one of you) a guy that was changing his AI jib to a spinnaker. He had (forgive my sailing vocab. again) lines going from the top of the mast the outer portion of the front Akas for mast support I assume. Do you think this is necessary for the additional mast stress?

Fusion is there a cable or mainstay running the full length of the front edge of your jib and spinnaker or did just attach to the bottom and the top of the sail?

That about sums it up or at least until it get started. I'm sure there will be more engineering as this project progresses.

Please send me your comments and let me know what you think, good or bad. I'd like to know before I get started.

Thanks for your help, Tim.

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"Riding The Island Wind" RIPIT (Tim)
'08 Red Hibiscus AI w/2013 replacement hull, Lovin' it!!!
'11 Golden Papaya AI (for a chap)
'10 Outback w/sail
'11 Tarpon 160


Last edited by ripit on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2659
Location: Kailua 96734
Tim, flrobot is no other than our beloved capt chaos, just before a freak electrical storm turned him into a super hero.

If you decided to sail in his wake, better invest in a good go pro helmet.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Location: Texas Gulf Coast/Dallas, Texas
NOHUHU wrote:
Tim, flrobot is no other than our beloved capt chaos, just before a freak electrical storm turned him into a super hero.

If you decided to sail in his wake, better invest in a good go pro helmet.


Good to here from you Nohuho. I had a feeling that's who Flrobot was, just wasn't sure. I'll keep the helmet in mind, thanks for the tip. :lol:

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"Riding The Island Wind" RIPIT (Tim)
'08 Red Hibiscus AI w/2013 replacement hull, Lovin' it!!!
'11 Golden Papaya AI (for a chap)
'10 Outback w/sail
'11 Tarpon 160


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1210
Location: sarasota,fl
ripit :
CaptnChaos (jim) and I live near each other and try to get together once in a while to compare notes, Jim is a smart guy and I recommend you follow his lead on your AI , as the TI is a little different (mostly because the mainsails is mounted soooo far forward on the TI). Actually him and I were out on my TI when we noticed that there was very little forward stress on the back stay line when using the mainsail and jib. The rear stay only comes into play when you are racing a powerful downwind (15-20mph) with a huge spinnaker deployed. This puts so much stress on that small 1/4" stud in the bottom of the hull at the base of the mast you pretty much have to have the rear stay line. I snapped off several of those studs before figuring out why.
Jim has the 22 sq ft Hobie Kayak sail on his boat, which seems to be the perfect jib sail for the AI.

You are correct you shouldn't need a bow sprit on an AI.

Jim goes back and forth on the side stays, I think his final determination is you don't need side stays with the 22 sq ft jib but will let him chime in on that. The strength of the mast holder from side to side stress is very strong because of the V brace system, as long as everything is kept tight, it should all work, the only Achilles tendon in the design is the 1/4 stud described above.

There is no front cable stay on my boat, basically I attach the jib and spinnaker at the top, looping through the front padeye then back and pull them tight at the bottom, tying them off on the front AKA brace (the strongest point on the boat). Jim does the opposite, he has a halyard line, where he clips the base of his jib or spinnaker at the front padeye (actually his bow brace), then hoists them up with his halyard line (which he ties off to the front AKA brace). This way he can run either the jib, or a spinnaker just by getting the sail he wants to use out of his sail bag (he has lots of sails LOL). I recommend you do it this way, it is more standard, and safer, as in you can always bring the jib or spin down if there is a problem. This is actually the way I used to have mine, but I switched to my current rigid system a couple yrs back. The reason I switched to what I have now is I hated having to pull the sails out of my sail bag and putting them up and down all the time to switch sails. With my current rig I can furl any or all of the 3 sails independently of each other, It only takes a second or two to furl or unfurl any of the sails, so I use them all quite a bit more, mixing and matching for just the right sail plan for the condition at that moment. The downside to this design is all the sails are up all the time, either furled or open.

Both my jib and Spinnaker have semi- rigid masts 1 inch dia) mounted on PVC furling drums made out of 1 1/2 PVC tubing (cheap but reliable), the sails furl around the masts. Jim has a proper furler that he purchased.

If you planning on using a jib bigger than the standard Hobie Kayak sail, I 'm recommending you build something to brace your bow, because of the big hatch opening it waves around quite a bit of you have sails mounted up there. Plus I never trust that front Padeye, though it will probably work ok with a 22 sq ft sail, anything bigger and it may get ripped of (that would be a bad thing).

Hope all this helps you.
Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:51 am 
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Location: Clearwater, Fl
Hey Tim,

Glad to hear you're looking to start experimenting with a jib system. It's a fun project and makes sailing so much more interesting. That Floridarobot video you saw was one of my early versions ... there's been many many versions of my jib system which I'm getting close to completing. Plus I no longer use that useless spinnaker I spent so much money on from a so called "professional" sailmaker. The jib I now use is very functional downwind so I don't need to switch sails any longer.

The side stays were more to calm paranoia and they're no longer used. I almost used a set during the EC but at the very last minute removed them. I'll never use them again. However having a rear stay is still on my radar. Because as Bob mentioned, the forward forces on the mast and that little 1/4" bolt could compromise the boat but so far I haven't had problems and have sailed hundreds of hours in strong winds with the jib.

One reason Bob and I have different designs is our needs differ. I needed a system where I could demast and redeploy the mast and jib as required. Primarily the flexibility to go under low bridges. And that's why my mast topper has been tweaked to be the lightest design possible. Bob's mast topper is extremely heavy .. I'm guessing at least 20 pounds. Add a 20 pound weight to your mast top and try to lift it while standing on your boat. It's not going to happen with me ... even with the superpowers : ) Bob even car tops his TI so his strength level (and patience) is far greater than mine.

The next couple weeks the world will hopefully see my newest secret weapon unveiled ... a new and improved jib sailing system which I'm hoping makes my AI even more efficient. My good friend Yakaholic is coming down for a week to visit and sail and I'm often struggling to keep up with his speedy AI and his excellent sailing skills. With my AI's new improvements (and the superpowers) I hope to be sailing circles around him :lol: ... maybe even spray him with my roostertail as I fly by. :o

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Jim


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:05 am 
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Jim, say 'HI' to Yakaholic for me and enjoy sailing together again. He was involved very early during my Sprayskirt development (2007?), long before I convinced my wife to started sewing them for others.

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:25 am 
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Location: Kailua 96734
CaptnChaos wrote:
The next couple weeks the world will hopefully see my newest secret weapon unveiled ... a new and improved jib sailing system which I'm hoping makes my AI even more efficient. My good friend Yakaholic is coming down for a week to visit and sail and I'm often struggling to keep up with his speedy AI and his excellent sailing skills. With my AI's new improvements (and the superpowers) I hope to be sailing circles around him :lol: ... maybe even spray him with my roostertail as I fly by. :o
(DISCLAIMER:Wearing a cape, or having a jib does not give you superpowers. Only Superman can fly. Action figures sold separately. Batteries not included.)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:41 pm 
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Location: Clearwater, Fl
NOHUHU wrote:
(DISCLAIMER:Wearing a cape, or having a jib does not give you superpowers. Only Superman can fly. Action figures sold separately. Batteries not included.)
A vivid imagination can be quite powerful NOHUHU :lol: I'm not ruling out flying yet.

Image

KayakingBob wrote:
Jim, say 'HI' to Yakaholic for me and enjoy sailing together again. He was involved very early during my Sprayskirt development (2007?), long before I convinced my wife to started sewing them for others.

Will do Bob.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:47 am
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Location: Texas Gulf Coast/Dallas, Texas
Capt, can you tell me where you got the jib furl?

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"Riding The Island Wind" RIPIT (Tim)
'08 Red Hibiscus AI w/2013 replacement hull, Lovin' it!!!
'11 Golden Papaya AI (for a chap)
'10 Outback w/sail
'11 Tarpon 160


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Location: Clearwater, Fl
ripit wrote:
Capt, can you tell me where you got the jib furl?

http://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/1-Ronstan-Furlers-Small-Boats/RONRF76.html

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