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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas
Well, it's been nearly a year, and still no fix from Hobie on this important component that is genuinely central to the TI. There have been suggestions for treating the symptoms, but nothing to cure the problem. I no longer believe that fixing this is a priority for the design team.

It pains me to say this, but I rather suspect Hobie's approach on this issue will be to stay the course and simply replace any crossbars and mast cups that fail. Any actuary would agree this is an economical business practice.

It's true, we're all sailing and enjoying our TIs, but while on the water I can't shake the thought that my forward crossbar isn't worthy of my complete trust. In so long as this is the case, Hobie's reputation for quality will be a little smudged in my mind.

I'm sorry to have to say all of that, but it's what's on my mind these days.

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2010 Golden Papaya TI, "Trifurcatus"
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Location: High Point, NC
Are you sure they didn't fix it on the newer models? My AI can't allow that to happen due to the bars being pinned with 2 machine screws through the lower portion of the Aka. They hold it centered at all times.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
Are you sure they didn't fix it on the newer models? My AI can't allow that to happen due to the bars being pinned with 2 machine screws through the lower portion of the Aka. They hold it centered at all times.


Tom,

The AI crossbar is exactly the type of crossbar I'd LOVE to see for the TI. That's how the TI crossbar should have been designed from the start. If Hobie has developed such a fix, I have yet to hear/read about it. Nor have I received any new upgrade parts for this problem in the mail. Admittedly, my hopes of a quick solution are wearing thin, but I'm still hoping nonetheless.

I'd even be very happy to pay for a new crossbar... one like the AI's have. Sure it'll probably mean drilling some holes in the hull, but look at the mods developed by the sailors on ths forum. Clearly, we are UP to the task.

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Houston, TX.
2010 Golden Papaya TI, "Trifurcatus"
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Right, I'm only speaking from what's on my AI. The same thing should work on the TI but no idea if Hobie has made that change on the Tandem or nor.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Location: Ormiston, Australia
The older deisgn didn't suffer this problem because the cross bar was anchored directly to the hull. The older ones corroded away before your eyes because of the brass and alloy contact. The old design would have been fine if the brass hull inserts were changed to a metal that didn't promote corrosion with aluminium. This doesn't help the new boat owners.... :(

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:59 pm 
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I started getting the mysterious clunking sound when changing tack in 15 mph winds, 2 years after starting to sail my TI. After reading these posts, I put a leather shim inside each crossbar hold down clamp then tested it. Still had the clunk but only in wind strong enough to make it difficult to trim the sail with one hand. Now upon reading about Matt's spacer block suspicion, I checked the spacer bolts - they were not tight, so I tightened them up. I haven't tested it yet, butThis seems like a composite problem....V-brace, spacer bolts, and hold down clamps all work together; but with the engineering of the V-brace, all the whole force of the sail is magnified by the shortened arm of the mast receiver and the transfer, via the V-brace, to the crossbar is literally in the thousands of pounds of force, so a proper solution would involve a static connection - in shear - at the crossbar hold down. Meanwhile, tighten, tighten, tighten, and furl the sail in high winds. Happy TI Sailing!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:27 pm 
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Location: sarasota,fl
C-haul1:
This has been a very hot topic on many threads. Hobie did revise their manufacturing and reduced the diameter of the holes in the 3/4 x 1 x 6 inch aluminum spacer, I believe the reports of masts slipping on newer hulls has greatly reduced (mostly because everyone is checking their bolts often). I don't have a front cross bar slipping problem on my 2012 TI hull, but I did have that problem on my 2010 TI hull (it was pretty bad), my 2011 TI hull would slip until Hobie sent me a new aluminum spacer block, after installing I no longer had xbar slipping problems, but had to make sure all the bolts stayed tight (checked often). I have also noticed on my 2012 TI (from the factory) that Hobie has the Harken blocks for sail control and furling back in their original (2010) position, one on each side of the outermost hull clamp, this limits the possible side to side movement of the forward cross bar to less than 1/4 inch. In addition my 2012 TI has the improved cross bar with weld in the front and back of bearing plate. Bottom line is, In my opinion is Hobie has progressively improved on the mast holder design based on feed back from users and 2012 and onward owners should have much less problems than previous designs. However it is still very important to check all bolts often ( I inspect everything before each outing)

As a side note, and related subject I made what I think was a pretty big discovery on page 3 of the thread Mast Support Fail ( viewtopic.php?f=71&t=44081&start=60).

This is related to the mast strength, and lack of support for rearward and forward force on the mast holder. Basically I suspect many of the studs at the bottom of the mast cup that have broken, have broken due to forward or rearward force, rather than side force as I believe everyone was suspecting. Basically what I am saying is if all the bolts on the frame and v-brace system are tight, it is still very easy to snap the stud in the bottom of the mast cup, by either sailing in a strong gusty downwind condition, or pulling the sail too tight when sailing up wind. You can likely snap that stud by simply pulling sharply on the sail control line (pulling the sail very tight) with the boat sitting in your front yard, "because of the great leverage".
Since re-enforcing inside my hull with both the aluminum piece epoxied into the hull, and the strap wrapped around the forward drive well (mentionioned later in the thread) I have had no difficulty with my masts. As everyone knows I have huge sails on my TI's (designed to suit local " low wind" conditions), and have used all these sails extensively in sometimes not so desirable conditions. I no longer have any fear of damaging the hull.

Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:18 am 
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Bob,
I like your ideas to restrain fore and aft forces on the mast holder. I think I'll tinker with that concept some before next season. How did you get Hobie to replace your old with a new spacer. Failure is not an option.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:29 am 
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C-haul1 wrote:
Failure is not an option.


... one of my favorite books that I think anyone on this board would enjoy

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'07 Hobie Adventure Island #1
'07 Hobie Adventure Island #2 Golden Papaya AI LadyJane
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:53 am 
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C-haul1 :
Hobie engineering sends me and a couple other guys stuff to test and report on once in a while. That aluminum spacer block was one of those items. I'm on my 3rd TI now, (#1 was a really early model (spring 2010), #2 was a 2011 replacement complete hull ( #1 developed a tear in the hull top around the scupper ( I tore it in front of the dealer pulling the boat out of the water 6 ft (in soft sand)), I sold #2 last winter, then bought a new 2012 about a month ago.

I kept all my old sails, motor, motor mount, etc and put them on the new boat. The only mod I have done to the new boat is put in that alum spacer behind the mast support cup way down in the bottom of the hull (easily removed), everything else is standard. As long as the metal V frame brace is kept tight (and checked often) I no longer have any difficulty with the Xbar sliding back and forth , even with my big sails (the rear stay line is the secret), and make sure you keep the harken blocks for sail control and furling in the factory position (one on each side of the right outermost AKA bracket), this limits side movement. I have a lot of really hard miles on my TI's with no major difficulties (literally thousands of sailing miles). Anything I did have problems with Hobie addressed and incorporated into their manufacturing (it's a long list of improvements they have made for us, THANKS HOBIE)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
fusioneng wrote:
That aluminum spacer block was one of those items.


Did I miss a pic of this somewhere Bob ...or is it top secret development stuff? :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Stringy:
This is an old thread, go back and look at page one. About quarter way down there is a pic of someone with that block in their hand (called a tie in block in Georubs pics). Going to about halfway down page one, Matt mentions they were focusing their efforts on a manufacturing issue with the hole tolerance on those blocks (thats the block I was talking about). To test out the revised design they sent new blocks to a few of us to test out and report on. I assume they adjusted their manufacturing tolerance.
Nothing top secret, personally I don't think it was a significant. I suspect Georubs major problem (on page 1 pictures) was the location of his mainsheet cleat and his furling cleat in his picture. TxYackMan shows a pic a little further down on page one with the Harken blocks in their correct position.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Thanks for that Bob. :)


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