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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:30 am
Posts: 55
Hello

I tested out both the 12 and 14 Pro Angler on the weekend and as much as I really like the new Vantage seat, the 14 PA was very noticeably more stable (for me). It was my 2nd and 3rd time ever, respectively, in a kayak so I don't have a good way to judge this. Could the difference just be in the 2' length (the width difference isnt that different - like 2”) or could it be the seat? I had it all the way down at the back but could it be naturally a bit higher sitting than the seat in the 14'? The 12' is said to be stable so it could just be me (300#) but the 14 was just SO much more stable.

If anyone with more experience could give me their thoughts, I'd appreciate it. I have the time to wait to see if the 14 comes out with the new seat but don't have to if it would lead to more instability... The seat in the PA 14 though I could feel where the material stopped at the back of the seat bottom and I worry that would get irritating after awhile on it. I would prefer a seamless seat! It was a bit better when I made the seat go more upright but comfort-ability leaning back is very important feature.... :D

Thanks in advance!
Soon - SOON! - 2B a Kayakker


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 1985
Location: High Point, NC
Both the 12 and 14 are remarkably stable compared to just about any other "kayak" on the market. If you can't manage in either of these, even the 12, by all means stay far away from any other kayak - they're like sitting on small diameter logs compared.

But yes, the 14 is bound to be a bit more stable due to the greater width. 2 inches can and does make a lot of difference in this regard,

I have the PA 14 and love the original seat.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:24 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Waverley,Nova Scotia,Canada
YY;
I agree completely with Tom's sentiments regarding the stability of the PA14. So much so that I fondly refer to mine as the "Ark Royal" (the just decomissioned, last aircraft carrier in the Royal Navy). Enjoy your purchase.
Regards....


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:30 am
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Thanks for the input!

I'm definitely staying away from regular kayaks, those aren't for me! I'm sticking to looking at kayaks people are raving about their stability and that's not a ton of choices so the feedback from others is appreciated. The 12 still felt stable but I'm trying to put as much why behind the better performance of the 14 as i can. I thought maybe a 2" higher seat would account more for it than the 2" less at the width and that could translate to the 14 if the seat is installed in it in the next version.

I'm also thinking maybe the tracking had some to do with my comfort level with the 12. There were (thick) weeds where I tested them and they asked me to paddle out past them before engaging the Mirage drive so the inexperience + the short paddle, wide boat left me going back and forth more than I probably needed to. That continued when I got out where i could use the drive and tried turning the 12 with that... knob doohickey? Very responsive but I was over steering a lot trying to get a feel for it.

The 14 is definitely the way to go then. Does anyone know if the seat material "gives" over a bit of time? Is the fabric holding up well?

If anyone is interested, the first kayak I tried was the Native Ultimate 14.5 with the propel. I really liked the canoe-kayak hybrid-ness (and the chair :wink: ) and the price but I started adding up the boat, a paddle, the cooler bags for storage then the skirts that would keep general spray out that it wouldn't self bail and THEN all the stories about how once it's swamped (by accumulated spray as much as tipping) it's pretty impossible to get back into... If I was staying on a river I think it would be great but for my purposes, the Hobie started not looking like the price was that far out there for what I'd get.

All the videos of you guys heading out into the ocean definitely ups the confidence in the PA! I'm on a small, choppy lake but with big cabin cruisers going full tilt in it. Their wallet I guess when it comes to fueling the beasts but they have more money than courtesy and I know they won't slow down for a smaller craft. That and I've been in a 26' cabin cruiser and have been knocked around in some of their wakes. Hobie PA 14 wins the day I think. Just need to think about jumping into it now or wait. I've done some decent damage getting camping gear already this year...

But I hate waiting!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:39 am
Posts: 69
Location: Marco Island, Florida
It is a well established and discussed issue that new kayakers place way too much emphasis on stability. Being over 60 I was absolutely convinced I needed a PA "for stability". After some serious testing I eventually bought the Revo because the dealer convinced me to try it. Your decision between the PAs should not be made on stability. They are the most stable kayaks Ever made.

Johnny


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 218
Location: Ogden, Utah
I'm 65 and stability was one of my wife's top priorities. I'm still not totally comfortable standing in my PA14, especially if there are waves, but when sitting it's like being in any other boat. My issue with the seat was that it was uncomfortable to pedal with my feet almost at mid-chest level, and it was very difficult for me to get out of, either to stand or just to get to the gator well to retrieve stuff.

I raised mine almost four inches with a simple mod using 2x4s. (See my "Simple seat riser mod" thread. It made a remarkable difference, but didn't change the stability to any noticeable extent. Also, the more I get out in the boat, the more confidence I have in it.

A foam pad cures that very annoying gap in the seat material. I standard PFD cushion is an excellent choice, as it adds a flotation device in addition to the one you're wearing.

_________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Pro Angler-14 owner


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:59 am
Posts: 506
There is a learning curve for the stablility/balancing a yak. 3 or 4 times would not be long enough to increase the curve. The 14 will be the quickest to learn the balancing. The 12 will take a bit longer. BUT anyother yak will not come close to the stability of other yaks.

At 300 the 14 will be better fit, but the 12 is rated to handle your needs.

Remember that the higher your raise your center of gravity the tipper the yak will become. So in the 12 you might not want to sit at the highest level until you get several hours of play time in for the learning curve. Then as your confidence improves you could raise the height of the seat too!

Good Luck


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:41 pm
Posts: 500
Location: Lake Park, GA
I agree with the comments from other PA owners regarding stability. Having fished for decades out of a bass boat, I am very used to standing and casting. I have stood in my PA to cast in both fresh and saltwater environments. But as mentioned above, it does take a little time on the water to get your balance and confidence where standing is involved.

I don't have the H-Bar yet, but plan on getting one in the future. The PA14 is very stable for me and I never worry about tipping over. To me the seats are purely personal preferences as to comfort, height, etc.. We're all different and have different comfort levels. I agree with Tom Kirkman...I have no issues with the current PA14 seat.

I did add the seat slider and that gave me a little more height, but I didn't add it for the height. I added it to be able to move it back off the cutting board lid. So far I have had zero issues with the seat webbing and I fish at least once a week for 3-5 hours each outing. The suggestions of adding seat cushions are great suggestions for those needing a little more comfort or height.

I think future owners looking for feedack from current owners have to realize that everyone's suggestions are based on what works for them. You have to weigh out the responses you get and make a decision. As has been mentioned before...the PA is a great fishing platform in it's stock form regardless of version. The fun part is customizing it to suit your individual fishing needs.

I'm through rambling...tight lines!

_________________
Steve Stubbs
USAF (retired)

2013 Pro Angler 14 - Dune
2012 Pro Angler 14 - Dune


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:23 pm
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I feel the 12 is more stable (less wobble side to side) than the 14. On the 14 I'm trying to balance while stepping over the cutting board and It takes a few minutes to feel comfortable, but I always return to a seated position.
With the 12 I can actually take steps and stand facing the gunnels, something I wouldn't even try on the 14. Also raising the seat bottom and standing between the arm rest is like a reverse stand up bar, you can really relax then. I don't think I'll need the H-bar on the 12 as it is that stable
56 y.o 220#


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:53 am 
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Thanks everyone - definitely raising my confidence! I will definitely take another look at the seat mod posts - I liked the idea on the 12 that you can put the seat back low and the knees up although maybe a seat cushion could to a two-for for simplicity sake. That the height won't really be throwing me off too is great to know. Not afraid of instability... maybe just pride and inconvenience. Outside of doing the deep water re-entry tests, I don't want to be making a spectical of myself struggling back on the thing if I can help it :lol: . That's where I think the 14 with the 100# more capacity will come in handy and I think getting back on in the back using the weight of the whole boat will help. Will have to get one and figure it out as I go!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:06 am
Posts: 731
Location: Amelia Island, FL
I have found that stability has one other factor that has not been mentioned. As you get older, you do lose your sense of balance. I don't get on my roof anymore at age 71 :mrgreen:

When I first got my PA 12, one of the first things I did was to take it to my neighbors pool. I also left all my fishing gear at home. Got in it and learned to start trusting myself and my balance. I was quickly surprised how stable the 12 was.

Most folks will take their new kayaks out loaded with gear and try standing to test the stability. Of course your going to be nervous with $1,000 worth of fishing tackle on board :mrgreen:

Now the only person who gets nervous about me standing/fishing is my wife :!:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:14 am
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I have a PA 12 and have been 3 miles off shore in the Gulf, prior to going in deeper water I stood up in it, tried to flip in 2 foot waves and just generaly messed around with it stability "just in case". I was not able to make it roll, I have even jump out in 10 foot of water with no life jacket and had no issue climbing back in. As far at tackle is concerned, if you don't have it tied down you can loose it, if it doesn't float put a lanyard or bungee type device on it. Yak attack and other companies make such device just for that unfortunate occasion.


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