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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2692
Location: Kailua 96734
You could say the same thing about the TI crossbar. Tighten it down - it looks and feels rock solid until the twisting forces of a loaded 18' mast, buried Amas, wind and waves are applied. They will still move under those stresses. Nuts/bolts also work loose over time.

So for new owners, with boats under warranty, I don't recommend introducing any source of slop in these connections. If you discover a fundamental geometry problem with the hull and the V-brace, contact your dealer first for a solution. Hobie will want to know about it.

Tom, I realize you just want to relieve some of the shearing force on the hull/bolts by gapping this connection. What you chose to do with your own hull is fine, I just don't feel anyone else should follow that particular advice. At least, until Hobie endorses it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
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Location: High Point, NC
There is no "slop" nor movement. The Truss fits perfectly now without introducing any stress on the hull. This is the way it's supposed to fit.

The situation I described is what is cracking many of these hulls. You can't force the Truss into place without introducing stress on something. If a guy tries to install the truss on his hull's mounting studs and can't do it without using force to bend the truss and/or the hull, he's got an accident waiting to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:40 pm
Posts: 80
... Well, Week 2 and I'm still waiting on dealer (AustinKayak) and/or manufacture (Hobie) to replace my TI (or at least the main hull). I have sent them (what I think is... not real legible) the HIN, and my friend assures me that there are a lot of TIs sitting in Oceanside.... Hmmm....

Fortunately, this same friend took me out on his Getaway today! However, boatless in the middle of my summer vacation can be a bit frustrating indeed. Hopefully, I'll be back out soon... with renewed faith in Hobie's workmanship... and service.

PS - These forums are awesome! What a resource!

Thanks, all.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:40 pm
Posts: 80
So, now AustinKayak is saying that a "new boat" is not required but that I can replace the mast brace nut/bolt myself. Hopefully the parts can be sent soon...

My question is: How to I extract the remaining nut piece and install the new one so that a watertight seal is ensured?

Here two pics of what I was left with after the failure... (The buttons removed from the bottom reveal two round brass nuts still embedded.):

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 3061_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 9227_n.jpg

Thanks, in advance, to anyone who knows how to "do surgery" in this area of a TI.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
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Location: High Point, NC
The problem I see here is that the brass mounting nut has pulled loose, so it's not just a matter of screwing another threaded stud into it. I suspect the ACK folks didn't understand that the actual brass mounting nut has pulled loose.

It can be fixed with plastic welding to reseat the mounting nut. The forces on it are mostly down, or fore and aft, not up, so this is a reasonable fix. I fixed mine in nearly the same situation.

However, I'm not sure you'd be comfortable attempting that task yourself. It's one of those things that might a stretch for a dealer to expect anyone to do. But again, I don't think they understood the extent of your problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:30 am 
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Posts: 80
Thanks, Tom, for the post. I have forwarded it on to AK and Hobie. I'm not real confident with doing any "plastic welding" though.

I have really appreciated the information on this forum, and I have to give props to Hobie for setting it up so that we can help and teach other: the genius and beauty of "community". :)

Thanks so much!

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:35 am 
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Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
Posts: 999
Scott

We have already communicated back with Austin to file a claim for a replacement hull for your kayak - they haven't yet done this - please have someone from Austin call directly at the office (x 550) speak to Amy over at Austin kayaks, she handles claims usually. Not sure why this hasn't been processed already, I thought it was done Wed. last week (July 25 - I have an e mail from Brendan Castile from Hobie warranty dept back to Austin kayak)

_________________
Jacques Bernier
http://www.hobiecat.com/
http://www.facebook.com/HobieCatCompany


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:44 am
Posts: 65
Location: Philadelphia, PA
I'm just about to replace the forward Xbar on my 2011 TI with a newer mod that has the double weld on the part that extends forward and has the plastic ball bearings in it. I was going to start a new thread asking for any tips or experience on this replacement operation when I saw this thread.

Can anyone direct me to threads that explain how this whole truss assembly is supposed to be tuned? Obviously, it's important, and I don't want to do it wrong, or fail to fix the adjustment if it is currently faulty.

Thanks everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:40 pm
Posts: 80
Thanks, Jacques.
Amy was on vacation for a week or so, but she's back now and is working on getting me a new main hull.
Much appreciated,
Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2692
Location: Kailua 96734
If there are no upward forces then how did the plug pull loose?


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:59 am 
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Maybe the pressure from sheeting in (while sailing to windward) pried it upward and forward...?


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
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Location: High Point, NC
Because there are fore and aft forces when under heavy sail as the bottom of the sail mast tube attempts to shift in those directions. The V-Truss pushes DOWN on the bottom stud mount, and UP on the top stud mounts.

Not to mention, that the shaft probably pulled, or was on the verge of doing so, because the truss was forced into position during assembly. This is what split my hull and why the truss needs to be fashioned to allow for slight variances in the mounting stud locations on the hulls.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Posts: 80
Well, this is what can happen if you take a skill saw to your TI:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 5742_n.jpg

However, it is required to replace a defective hull (i.e., to cut out an 8" x 10" piece which includes the HIN and send it to Hobie).

I hope none of you have to experience this.

I'll feel so much better when the replacement hull arrives...

Sail on,

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
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Location: Kailua 96734
Yup! I am a not-so-skilled plastic surgeon too. :cry:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:16 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Lexington, NC
Just so happens I had my v brace out today for cleaning off salt corrosion. I see what people are talking about when putting it back getting the studs to line up. Trying to put the bottom on first, then on the 2 top studs was not the way to go. I can see how someone might get it in a bind that way.

What I found is to first expand the turn buckles until the 2 top studs line up, then they will slip right on when bases are parallel. Turn both sides evenly, not just one. Once the 2 top holes line up, they slide right on. Then place on the nuts but don't tighten, just get them started so the brace doesn't fall back down. I found it easier to put one side on the stud, just start the nut to hold it up, then place the other side near the stud working both couplings until there was line up, then slip on and start this nut.

Now turn the brass coupling to draw up the bottom base plate up and over the bottom stud. will have to alternate turning each coupling until the bottom plate is over the stud and the hole lines up as it will go to one side or the other as a result of turning the couplings.

Now once the bottom stud lines up with the bottom plate hole, turn the couplings the other way to expand the brace again until all bases are seated on the studs. This looks to to be the way to go so nothing is in a bind. Then turn by hand a little more so that there is no play and just a little tension. (That was how I found it) Then tighten down all nuts.

I assume there is not much preload on this brace other then what it takes to snug it into place before tightening the nuts, but if there is some spec about this, I would like to know.

Just my 2 cents from my piddling today.


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