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 Post subject: spinaker
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 77
Location: Brookings, south dakota
I finnally put together my new spinaker and I have a question. Three different lines One that is blue and is shorter no problem I know where that one went. But now I have a white one and a black one. Which line takes the sail up the mast? I am using the black line but I seems to be short by a few feet. Should I use the white line instead?


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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 543
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
clark wrote:
I finnally put together my new spinaker and I have a question. Three different lines One that is blue and is shorter no problem I know where that one went. But now I have a white one and a black one. Which line takes the sail up the mast? I am using the black line but I seems to be short by a few feet. Should I use the white line instead?


Hi Clark
As my own Spinnaker kit is about to arrive very shortly, the questions about the lines can probably be best answered by Matt Miller, Parts Manager for Hobie Inc.
(Even though, Mr Miller is an admin person on these forums, you will need to send him a PM to get a response), or call Hobie Support directly with a message asking for support.
*(see below)
I have also downloaded and read the instructions for the Spinnaker Hardware Kit install. In truth, friend, Hobie has made their instructions sheets quite vague simply to have you go back to your dealer to give them extra business of a simple install that should be a DIY.
You may also notice that there is no YouTube Vids to install their options.

Ok, look at the instructions. They offer no measurements but show where the lines need to go. So first, you need to measure out what they intend. (Hint, after installing a Genny on a Catalina 27 that I owned years ago, the longest thinest line will be your sheet lines). There is an odd outhaul system on the head of the pole of the Wave, that should be the shortest if the drawings are to scale.
If you can wait a week or so, I will have the parts that I need to do exactly what I am probably going to end up with just like you.
I'll let you know in more detail when I get there.

*Edited: I have been informed by Matt Miller that my info is out of date thus not relevant.

Best regards
Tri

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Last edited by Trinomite on Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Hi Clark
It took forever to get the parts shipped from Seattle to Vancouver Island, but the entire package is here.
Here is how the parts work out...

(Good Lord, Matt Miller, why are your people shipping out parts that are for boats built before 1997?). Not only does it cost more to ship but you are shipping parts that cost a fortune to produce that will end up going into the recycling bin). The kit is worth $750. If you would only ask the dealer what the year of the boat is for this kit, you could either lower the price (and provide better much needed instructions for installation) by simply providing what is needed for the year of the boat by using the serial number on the frigging hull!!. This also provides a fool proof system to insure that you and Hobie are not selling parts to 'owners' of stolen vessels.....)


Anyway Clark (sorry about this much needed rant).
The Black line is your halyard.
The white line is the continuous sheet line.
That is based on simple logic. You need to use the lightest line to keep your chute from collapsing in light airs.

I hope that helps
Trinomite

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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9032
Location: Oceanside, California
Sorry Trinomite... I no longer review the forums on a regular basis. Our support and warranty guys took that over last winter. I check every so often for a question directed to me personally, but you are correct... PM is best.

First... wrong... the white line of 45.5 feet (per instructions) is the halyard.

Black fuzzy one is the sheet.

What hardware is incorrect? The spare screw for the pole attachment when mounting on a newer boat? It is far simpler for consumers, dealers and the catalog to have a more generic kit. One-fits-all sort of thing.

Sorry, but it is simply an impossibility for us to confirm ownership of a boat product before selling parts to someone. No one in any industry that I can imagine would have that ability or allow the administrative frustration placed on their consumers or dealers.

Last... Hobie Cat is not owned by Coleman. We are privately held.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Matt
I have the instructions in front of me. It says the Halyard line is 45.5 feet long. There is no mention of the color of the line which is the reason for this reply to this post. Considering that the white line is thinner than the black line, I will spend the money to buy a thinner line to get better performance in light airs
That spare screw is a waste of money, imho. But what you do with your kits is none of my business. All I know is I'm paying for a part that is useless to me.
The matter of spotting stolen boats have been answered in the post where it originated from.
As to Coleman being your owners, or non owners, you may want to correct this post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_%22Hobie%22_Alter

Tri

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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:25 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Ahh, I see where you picked up that idea.

That Wiki is about Hobie Alter... not Hobie Cat Company. It ends at the point he sold to Coleman. That is long ago and two ownership's ago.

Coleman sold Hobie Cat in the late 80's.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
So Matt
Why not update the obvious lack of current info and adjust as needed? 8)
Be well

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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 77
Location: Brookings, south dakota
Sorry been away from computer. Thanks I too used the wrong line. Going to change and put the black line on the out side. Big question now is how to prevent tares I think the yoke got me going to try taping it so I will not grab the spinnaker when taking it down


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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Trinomite wrote:
So Matt
Why not update the obvious lack of current info and adjust as needed? 8)
Be well


Not our thing to run around and update other people's wiki info. I doubt we have ever posted info in a wiki as a company.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:05 am 
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mmiller wrote:
Not our thing to run around and update other people's wiki info. I doubt we have ever posted info in a wiki as a company.


Matt, you have done a great job as spokesman for Hobie.

Too bad you have to spend time dealing with gerbils too.

Image

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Wave #100
H20 #287 "Tallahassee Lassie" (down in FLA)


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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 543
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
mmiller wrote:
Trinomite wrote:
So Matt
Why not update the obvious lack of current info and adjust as needed? 8)
Be well


Not our thing to run around and update other people's wiki info. I doubt we have ever posted info in a wiki as a company.


Odd Matt, you've mentioned that you don't answer email unless it is directly placed to you personally. However, Wiki is a means of sharing info on a subject to anyone that wishes to read and edit if they so wish to ensure that the right info is there for the global info system.
You mention 'our'. Not sure where you are going with that?
Your job has changed as you are now the Parts Manager of Hobie.
May I respectfully ask that you review the parts that are actually shipped in your add-ons to allow the average user to modify their own boat when they are many miles away from a local installer.
No, Matt, I`m not asking you to write written notes on how to use a Rivet Gun or how to use a Tap and Die set. But the least anyone could expect is a cross reference to the supplied parts from Hobie and to insure that the right parts are supplied to the customer to prevent early hair loss due to frustration for inadequate parts.
For example, I would ask why 3 tiny wood screws are supplied with the mounting plate for the Spinnaker Halyard Cam cleat designed to be mounted into the Forward Aluminum Crossbar.
I spent 6 hours today tracking down the parts that are needed to complete the kit I bought from Hobie.
You`re welcome!
Regards
Tri

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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:21 am
Posts: 7
Location: Kansas City, MO
Matt, thank you for all you do on these forums and all that you do for Hobie.

I started sailing about 10 years ago and learned by trial and error and by reading these forums. So thanks also to the forum members who post insightful and relevant posts.


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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:05 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Trinomite wrote:
Your job has changed as you are now the Parts Manager of Hobie.


No job change in that respect. I have been the Director of Parts and Accessory Sales for between 15-20 years. What changed is that I now am no longer responsible for product support (forums) and warranty issues. I do answer my email... just not all forum posts as in previous years.

Trinomite wrote:
I would ask why 3 tiny wood screws are supplied with the mounting plate for the Spinnaker Halyard Cam cleat designed to be mounted into the Forward Aluminum Crossbar.


Three stainless "wood" screws are used to mount the plate to the forward beam. Two inboard of the swivel itself and a third on the flat area of the plate. Optionally you can use a rivet in the flat area, but not everyone has a rivet gun. Same setup has been used for decades on all models. Not sure what "appropriate" hardware you had to find. Certainly there are options for those with machining (taps) skills, but machine screws are not necessary.

Trinomite wrote:
You mention 'our'. Not sure where you are going with that?


This is in reference to Hobie Alter's Wiki. Hobie Alter sold Hobie Cat many years ago when the company went public in the 70's. Since then, the company has been owned by Coleman and then Tony Wilson... and now the current owners (since the early 90's). We... Hobie Cat... are not Hobie Alter. I may know information pertaining to him, but do not feel comfortable or responsible to update a public wiki about him personally.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 543
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Matt

Thanks for your reply and your loyalty to your company.
In all honesty, it matters little who owns what and when.
I've enjoyed what Hobie produces and hopefully will do so in the future.
As Jack mentioned, I agree, you have proven yourself to be the worthy, diplomatic public voice for Hobie in these forums.

Sincerely
Tri

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 Post subject: Re: spinaker
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 543
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
mmiller wrote:
Three stainless "wood" screws are used to mount the plate to the forward beam. Two inboard of the swivel itself and a third on the flat area of the plate. Optionally you can use a rivet in the flat area, but not everyone has a rivet gun. Same setup has been used for decades on all models. Not sure what "appropriate" hardware you had to find. Certainly there are options for those with machining (taps) skills, but machine screws are not necessary.


Matt
The parts I replaced was those screws that won't work if a swivel cleat is placed on top of the mounting plate. By itself, the mounting plate will work with the 3 screws. But that only leaves the single forward hole to attach the swivel cam with the bolt and nut to the mounting plate. This also makes for a poor fit of the swivel cam to the mounting plate.
I chose to get enough rivets to mount the rear part of the mounting plate and the swivel at the same time. As an alternative I also got enough machine bolts to take care of any other alternatives that may creep up.
Keep in mind that I have also bought a Cheata Motor Bracket and a Traveller Kit. Indeed those last 2 items do require a rivet tool. However I still have to find the plastic ends for the Traveller Kit as the ends of the rail are as sharp as a razor. Having installed numerous rails in the past, I'm surprised that I would have to bother with this obvious safety issue.
(Nuts are very precious that is why they usually come sealed in a metal can. Wishing that I don`t need a metal can for mine...) :wink:
Regards
Tri

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