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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Super excited about picking u a 2009 Revolution 13 in what appeared to be great shape. Took it for a spin on the water & everything. Cleaning today I find this crack in the mirage drive cam bolt boss. How bad is this?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:51 pm 
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It won't heal itself. If the cam bolt is too tight it can split this area when you lock the drive in. As water splashes into the well you're apt to take on water inside the hull.

Plastic kayak hulls can be "welded." I just bought one of the Hobie plastic welders today to try on a split/crack of my own. I see no reason why it can't be done satisfactorily with some thought and careful work.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:03 pm 
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I think the best way to fix that crack is to find a PVC pipe cap that just fits over that whole area and add just enough of the proper epoxy (Scotchweld dp 8010 or West Systems G-Flex) to seal and reinforce it. Plastic welding on a stress area like that rarely holds up. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:30 pm 
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I have no evidence that plastic welding, done properly, would or wouldn't be as structurally sound as the material surrounding the repair. I'm neither a welder nor a plastics expert.

However, I began practicing with the KC Plastic Welder I got in today. I took a section cut from an older Hobie Outback (had installed a twist and stow hatch in front of the seat and saved the plastic disc).

I started by cutting a slot with a hacksaw.

Image

Then used the welder to make a slow pass over the area to heat it just to the point of softening it, and then a second pass with the plastic stock inserted and pushed against the surface.

Image

I wanted to see if the plastic had filled the crack and bonded as I hoped so I decided to shave off the excess. This was extremely difficult to do. The stock adhered like nobody's business. Finally I gave up on shaving and just sanded down into the plastic to try and uncover the crack. Although I was able to find it, everything appears to have reflowed smoothly enough that it's difficult to see where the crack was originally (yes, that's the top of it in the center of the photograph).

Image

Hand flexing of the plastic disc did not cause any damage nor the crack to reopen or show. I feel that it's a pretty strong repair, at least as strong as the material itself.

Now having said all this, I'm not recommending that you try to enact such a repair yourself. This was my first attempt and it appears to have come out rather well. I felt the key was to get the plastic really hot - hot enough to slightly melt but not so hot that anything melted to the point of becoming mis-shapen. Then, it would reflow as it cooled, melding back into a single unit. This is what appears to have taken place.

Obiviously, however, the opportunity to screw up is at least as possible, if not more than so, than the chance for success. The tool alone is not enough - there has to be some proficiency in using it. I may have just gotten lucky this time out.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:22 pm 
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I'm going to expoxy a pvc end cap onto it (Hobie dealer's idea) until I hear back from Hobie corporate, which may replace the hull. Still burns me up that I didn't catch this before handing over hard earned money.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:20 am 
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Just remember that most epoxies aren't going to move at the same rate as that plastic does. In effect, you may have two materials opposing each other. While I'm not a plastics expert, I know quite a bit about epoxies and would never use one to patch a plastic hull.

But I do wish you success. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
Just remember that most epoxies aren't going to move at the same rate as that plastic does. In effect, you may have two materials opposing each other. While I'm not a plastics expert, I know quite a bit about epoxies and would never use one to patch a plastic hull.
That's why you make it a pretty tight (dry) fit so you use as little epoxy as necessary to do the job.

You did a great plastic weld job! Most don't turn out that well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:01 pm 
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This is a pretty minor issue and doesn't affect the value of the boat -- nothing to kick yourself about. Epoxy is your best bet here. Welding has some uses, but attempting it inside a hull with only one hand and limited visibility is an invitation to disaster.

There are a couple of industrial epoxies I use that are IMO better than welding. One is 3M Scotchgard DP 8010 and the other is Loctite 3030. I've used both in high stress cracked areas with excellent results. Here's a pic of a test, trying to separate 2 bonded PE disks with a hammer and chisel. These disks had no preparation at all.. This was some leftover Loctite product (you can also see where I previously broke the plastic without breaking the bond trying to separate them):
Image

Either of the mentioned products will make a permanent fix. You might as well do both at the same time and save yourself any future grief (in case Hobie decides not to replace your hull over this).

BTW Tom, very nice job on your weld! 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Guys, thanks a lot, I appreciate the info. Still waiting to hear from Hobie. Great tip on the epoxy, where do you find the two kinds you mentioned? Everything in the box stores specifically says "NO PE"


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:20 am 
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I fixed an older 06 with cam towers that were distorting by gluing pvc around the towers and using longer cam bolts from Hobie. All the instructions for using the DP glue are here http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40951&p=166416#p166416 I would just glue a pvc cap on the end and be done with it. You could extend the length of the cap or simply add some glue on the bottom of the cap to tie the cam area into the bottom of the hull so it won't flex so much. I live on the water and use my kayak all the time and this fix is just solid as a rock. My 2010 revo does not extend the cam towers down to the lower hull like my older boat, I can tell the difference because the newer pedals do flex a bit compared to the older hull style.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:20 am 
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Thought I'd update this thread and give Hobie some kudos. The hull was over a year out of warranty but they replaced it anyway (had to kick in some bucks but still a good deal). I think the blue hull had some bad carma attached to it as I started catching fish almost as soon as the new yellow boat hit the water!

Thanks everyone for your inputs and suggestions, great forum here, and thanks to Hobie for taking care of me!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:16 am 
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Excellent :) .

Keith


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:47 am 
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I have been tracking various places where these complaints arise and seen a variety of claims about Hobie customer service. Generally, if you're an original owner, they go well beyond what the warranty says they have to do. On the other hand, there have been more balance between complaints and praise from people who ended up with problems on a second hand boat. Maybe that's just the nature of the internet that people are more likely to complain than compliment. In any case, it's great to see a second owner get well taken care of. It makes me feel more comfortable as I continue to look for a Revolution 13 at a price that fits my budget better than a new boat at full retail. It's not my boat, but I'd like to say thanks to Hobie for coming through for you!

-bob


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