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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:58 am 
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Location: Portland, OR
So -

Earlier this week I put up my first post, regarding a CL posting for a H16. Thanks to all of the responses, as well as the various threads on this site, I (somewhat) knew what to look for, and the crunching of the hull decks under my hands was a message received.

So, now we are looking at three options, two of which yet to be seen. I've listed them below. Background information: this boat will be for casual (but perhaps stupidly aggressive, at times) family sailing, in and around Portland, Oregon, Lake Tahoe, and occasionally the Santa Cruz (CA) Bay. So fresh and salt water, flat and wavy, etc. No plans to race her, so paying a "premium" for top end gear is not really a big plus.

I would really appreciate your feedback!

Option 1 (seen it) - asking $2,000
+ 1977/78 H16 yellow hulls, Tequila Sunrise original sails
+ original owner, hulls solid, bottoms look good, no dings or chips
+ original sails look in very good shape (no repairs, tears, fairly crisp)
+ mast is straight
+ trailer is definitely serviceable
- newish white tramp is faded,dirty (outside storage)
- "re-sealing" around hull/pylon entry points is sloppy - needs re-sealing
- needs a new tiller extension, jib downhaul cleat, bridle and forestay (originals still on boat)
- original white rudders
- no trapeze (need to buy)
- trailer has homemade PVC pipe sailbox (paint and TLC will fix)

Option 2 (CL ad see below) - asking $2,500
+ looks "mint"
+ haven't done much checking into it yet, as I'd like to buy boat above and sail immediately
+ http://portland.craigslist.org/grg/boa/3215025788.html
- is this too much boat for our purposes?

Option 3 - asking $3,000
+ a 75 boat in the Fleet 72 (Portland, OR) group
+ apparently in great shape, with $1,000s in upgrades, dark orange hulls
+ EPO rudders, etc
- no pictures (yet)
- is this "way" too much boat for our purposes?

I'm inclined to go with boat 1, and just add what I need as we sail her (new blocks, lines, cleats, etc etc). But I would hate to pass up a great boat (2 and 3), being "penny wise and pound foolish".

Today is decision day!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:50 am 
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the first one i think is over price for a boat that age.
have you read the ultimate catamaran buyers guide yet?
http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx

edit: just looked at the second ad there is 2 port holes behind the pylons and 1 in front on the same hull. so i would imagine repairs.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:19 pm 
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They all seem a bit overpriced to me. I simply would not pay $2000+ for a 1970's era Hobie 16, but hey that's just me. The second one doesn't list an age, but I'd guess mid to early '80's at the newest. And three port holes in one hull spells issues. Plus it looks like its been painted.

Not really sure what you mean by "too much boat.". They're all the same boats- Hobie 16s.

sm


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Location: Portland, OR
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. We're going to pass on the Option 1 boat, pass on Option 2 boat (given the multiple ports in just the left hull...), and take a close look at Option 3 boat. Spoke with the owner today, and he indicated that basically everything but the hulls is new(ish), replaced old parts with new in the last year or so. From comptip mast, to Harken 6:1 block, to EPO rudders, to new mesh tramp, to Aussie jib halyard, to adjusting jib cars, to new main and jib, to trailer upgrades, to new standing rigging, to... Basically over $4,000 in new "stuff", on the base hulls.

srm wrote:
Not really sure what you mean by "too much boat.". They're all the same boats- Hobie 16s.
sm


Well, as a "casual" sailor, do I want/need the EPO rudders, comptip mast, adjusting jib cars, etc, etc.

I suppose some would say no, and others would say you get what you pay for. I'm going to hope for the best and expect the worst. I'll post an update next week after looking at her, and maybe some pic's if we pull the trigger.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:55 am 
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Location: Lawrence, Kansas
I agree on these seem like high prices.
You are looking at 30+ year old Hulls.
Know how to inspect for soft spots.
If the hulls go soft, you are looking at a pile of parts.

Buy the best Hulls.

Good Luck.

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1980 H16
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:37 am 
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jimrude: Pass on number three as well. I recognize that markets vary, but for $3K around here you could get a pretty nice 90's boat that's ready to race. With Option 3, your paying top dollar, mostly for a bunch of goodies that you say you don't need. I would not buy a 70's boat at any price.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Location: Portland, OR
Thank you all for your constructive comments.

We've passed on boat 1 (crunchy hulls) and boat 2 ($2,000 for a 1978 boat with all original gear but solid hulls).

I've read different things on this and other forums re: H16s. Some people say that a boat that costs less than, say $1,000, is rubbish and not worth the effort, because of the time and cost of getting it safe and sail ready. Others say that the 70s boats have the solid hulls, so if you can find those, you can build up a nice boat on their foundation. And still others say they would not buy a 70s boat at any price.

If I'm devil's advocate. Say I can find some really, really good condition late 70s hulls, with a good tramp frame. And say I paid no more than a few hundred dollars for them.

Should I: buy a used trailer, new(ish) comp tip mast, rudders, trampoline, sails, standing rigging, lines and sheets, blocks, etc to make her water safe. Wouldn't my total cost come out at close to $2,500 or more?

Or Should I: recognize that the old hulls will eventually totally fail, and not bother with new(ish) components, and just build it up with safe and useful but not "top line" equipment? Wouldn't my total cost come out at close to $1,500?

Or Should I: buy new (this is actually not an option, as I do not have $11,000, or even half that amount, to spend).

As an aside, here on the West Coast, there are lots of old 1970s H16s for sale between $700 and $2,500 - take from that what you will - but no newer boats (within a reasonable drive to inspect).

Thoughts are really appreciated.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Location: Central Oregon
FWIW...I paid $700 for a one owner 1980. Barn kept so hulls are in good shape. Had one very small soft spot that I repaired. And I have put new standing and running rigging, and a new tramp, and some odds and ends. Probably into it double what I paid now. Be patient! I know its hard being the end of the season is drawing near! But if you do some smart shopping you will find a deal out there! SearchTempest.com is your friend!
http://www.searchtempest.com/results.ph ... maxAsk=max

Click on launch results and start shopping! There are a TON of 16's for sale right now!
New/used sails are expensive! Standing and running rigging is not to bad.
Make sure the mast is straight, hulls are solid (look/feel/knock on them all over!) and the sails are in decent usable shape!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:47 pm 
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There is no way that you should spend more than $1500 for a H16 until you get into the 90's. Even with all the new goodies that the owner claims, it is a buyers market and you should look elsewhere. A early to mid 80's with solid hulls and decent sails should be around $12-1500 and is what you are looking for. Unless you are fleet racing, don't shy away from plastic rudders and aluminum mast. The expensive things to replace are the sails and tramp. Do not ever buy painted hulls. I don't know why people continue to do that to these boats, but as far as I am concerned avoid them like the plague. Be patient and something will come up. I picked up a solid '83 for $1100, but I had to shop for about 6 months. It was worth it as I had no repairs and only a few upgrades to be sailing with a decent boat that I have had for many years now.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:58 am 
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mdgann wrote:
There is no way that you should spend more than $1500 for a H16 until you get into the 90's. Even with all the new goodies that the owner claims, it is a buyers market and you should look elsewhere. A early to mid 80's with solid hulls and decent sails should be around $12-1500 and is what you are looking for. Unless you are fleet racing, don't shy away from plastic rudders and aluminum mast. The expensive things to replace are the sails and tramp. Do not ever buy painted hulls. I don't know why people continue to do that to these boats, but as far as I am concerned avoid them like the plague. Be patient and something will come up. I picked up a solid '83 for $1100, but I had to shop for about 6 months. It was worth it as I had no repairs and only a few upgrades to be sailing with a decent boat that I have had for many years now.


I'm pretty much in agreement with the above. I could maybe see spending a little over $1500 for a late '80s 16 with a decent trailer and some upgrades, but $3000 for a mid '70s boat...no way.

For reference, a couple years ago I picked up a 1990 H18 in very good condition with rock solid hulls, good sails, trailex trailer, fiberglass boat box, all harken blocks, for basically what the seller of your 1975 H16 is asking.

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:11 am 
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Location: Portland, OR
Thanks, all!

Quick update:

Option 1 boat (late 70s original yellow hulls with TS sails) can drop price to at least $1,500 (his first counter). Opinions?

Another option is this boat:
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/boa/3212170651.html
Needs a new tramp and standing/running rigging
Sails are in "great" shape, but main has a (rust?) stain (can this be cleaned?)
Thoughts?

Thanks again for everyone's really helpful input.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:53 am 
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Not a fan of ports ahead of the front cross bar.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:07 pm 
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srm wrote:
mdgann wrote:
There is no way that you should spend more than $1500 for a H16 until you get into the 90's. Even with all the new goodies that the owner claims, it is a buyers market and you should look elsewhere. A early to mid 80's with solid hulls and decent sails should be around $12-1500 and is what you are looking for. Unless you are fleet racing, don't shy away from plastic rudders and aluminum mast. The expensive things to replace are the sails and tramp. Do not ever buy painted hulls. I don't know why people continue to do that to these boats, but as far as I am concerned avoid them like the plague. Be patient and something will come up. I picked up a solid '83 for $1100, but I had to shop for about 6 months. It was worth it as I had no repairs and only a few upgrades to be sailing with a decent boat that I have had for many years now.


I'm pretty much in agreement with the above. I could maybe see spending a little over $1500 for a late '80s 16 with a decent trailer and some upgrades, but $3000 for a mid '70s boat...no way.

For reference, a couple years ago I picked up a 1990 H18 in very good condition with rock solid hulls, good sails, trailex trailer, fiberglass boat box, all harken blocks, for basically what the seller of your 1975 H16 is asking.

sm


Boat 1 (original 70s solid hulls with TS sails) dropped his
price to $1,100 cash. Gonna pull the trigger. Will post pictures early next week. Hopefully no buyer's remorse. I'm guessing that with minimal upgrades to standing and running rigging she will be ready to sail.

Thanks for all the help!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Good luck - there's plenty of info on these forums and tribal knowledge to get you on the water. Just ask :)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Isnt that the one you said had crunchy hulls?

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