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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Which one of you Carolina boys is owning up?

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Awesome-18ft-Hobie-Cat-Sailboat-Graphics-Beach-Wheels-Nicest-Beach-/221116353485?pt=Sailboats&hash=item337b8fcbcd#v4-40


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:13 am 
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Its got a Myrtle Beach sticker on it but I have never seen that boat on the water. Might be one of the older unused boats with a new graphic wrap. Still has old style rudder system so it must not be sailed often.
Not sure I would have chosen that wrap :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:55 am 
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Location: Pittsboro NC
Yeah this is a Myrtle boat - advertised on CL for Myrtle beach recently. Quirky :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:37 am 
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ncmbm wrote:
Still has old style rudder system so it must not be sailed often.



??? I think there are a lot of older boats with old style rudder systems that are still sailed often. I honestly don't see any real compelling reason to spend the money to upgrade and the old rudder system works fine for me in both the ocean (Santa Cruz, CA) and on the lake I sail on (Huntington in CA). I would sooner spend the money (and the upgrade is a lot of money) on a new sail before wasting it one something that offers no apparent advantage while underway. I don't find unlocking the rudders when beaching that big of a deal and you have to deal with daggerboards anyway on an 18. With a little Phil bicycle grease and maintenance the old system works fine for me (I suppose it helps to have a set of spare hulls to boost that confidence factor as well).

The wrap is over the top for me too (and I was a child of a SF hippy mom).


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:19 am 
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msvphoto wrote:
??? I think there are a lot of older boats with old style rudder systems that are still sailed often. I honestly don't see any real compelling reason to spend the money to upgrade and the old rudder system works fine for me in both the ocean (Santa Cruz, CA) and on the lake I sail on (Huntington in CA).


Agreed. I still use the old style castings on my beach boat. No issues as long as the system is properly adjusted and maintained.

sm


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:54 pm 
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msvphoto wrote:
ncmbm wrote:
Still has old style rudder system so it must not be sailed often.



??? I think there are a lot of older boats with old style rudder systems that are still sailed often. I honestly don't see any real compelling reason to spend the money to upgrade and the old rudder system works fine for me in both the ocean (Santa Cruz, CA) and on the lake I sail on (Huntington in CA). I would sooner spend the money (and the upgrade is a lot of money) on a new sail before wasting it one something that offers no apparent advantage while underway. I don't find unlocking the rudders when beaching that big of a deal and you have to deal with daggerboards anyway on an 18. With a little Phil bicycle grease and maintenance the old system works fine for me (I suppose it helps to have a set of spare hulls to boost that confidence factor as well).

The wrap is over the top for me too (and I was a child of a SF hippy mom).


Ditto, except when you're coming in "hot" on a windy day. I've had a couple of hairy situations where I came barreling in to my beach (which was crowded with 10 or so Cats) only to find I had lost my ability to steer after the water pressure kicked up my unlocked rudders. Picture me scrambling to one side of the tramp to push the starboard rudder down....then to port....then back to starboard (because it had kicked back up again)....all the while prepping to squeeze my way into a semi-narrow parking space. Not pretty. I'm sure you ocean sailors would have been laughing at my futility. :lol:

My castings are pretty worn and I haven't been able to get them to kick up automatically. I'm going to give it another try this winter.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:59 pm 
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BrianCT wrote:
msvphoto wrote:
ncmbm wrote:
Still has old style rudder system so it must not be sailed often.



??? I think there are a lot of older boats with old style rudder systems that are still sailed often. I honestly don't see any real compelling reason to spend the money to upgrade and the old rudder system works fine for me in both the ocean (Santa Cruz, CA) and on the lake I sail on (Huntington in CA). I would sooner spend the money (and the upgrade is a lot of money) on a new sail before wasting it one something that offers no apparent advantage while underway. I don't find unlocking the rudders when beaching that big of a deal and you have to deal with daggerboards anyway on an 18. With a little Phil bicycle grease and maintenance the old system works fine for me (I suppose it helps to have a set of spare hulls to boost that confidence factor as well).

The wrap is over the top for me too (and I was a child of a SF hippy mom).


Ditto, except when you're coming in "hot" on a windy day. I've had a couple of hairy situations where I came barreling in to my beach (which was crowded with 10 or so Cats) only to find I had lost my ability to steer after the water pressure kicked up my unlocked rudders. Picture me scrambling to one side of the tramp to push the starboard rudder down....then to port....then back to starboard (because it had kicked back up again)....all the while prepping to squeeze my way into a semi-narrow parking space. Not pretty. I'm sure you ocean sailors would have been laughing at my futility. :lol:

My castings are pretty worn and I haven't been able to get them to kick up automatically. I'm going to give it another try this winter.


I have come in "hot" plenty of times and always the bigger worry is getting daggerboards up in time, rudders never an issue (and I never come in with rudders locked, but they are the last thing I unlock). I am much more fearful of hitting something underwater with a daggerboard than a rudder. Only boat I let the sand kick the rudder up with is my Laser (and even then the tie line is un-cleated). I do not trust the rudders to kick up by themselves, and wouldn't regardless of which version (old or now) I had. The dagger boards are deeper in the water and a hard hit there would really be a day spoiler so I always make sure they are up first.

All that said, the one time I broke a lower casting was on the beach in Santa Cruz. The boat was already pulled up on the beach and we were in the middle of turning it around to head back out and a wave came along, one of the rudders happened to not be in the locked up position, and snap. This failure would have happened with either new or old style because it was a side force that snapped it.

I don't worry about transom tearing off incidents because I religiously unlock and raise the rudders prior to hitting the beach.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:43 pm 
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I LOVE the wrap!! Not sure that I'd go with a Hippie theme though.

I looked into doing a wrap and was told that they work well in fresh water but that the colors fade quickly in salt water.

Anyone out there that has done a wrap on their boat? (Hippie or non-Hippie)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:04 am 
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Location: North Carolina
All you old style rudder guys seem to be west coast or lake sailors. Myrtle Beach has very crowded water and multiple sand bars. Combine that with no break between waves and the old style systems do not last long. Even with all the tricks and lube the old system will end up breaking in the surf.
Ever watch the Tybee 500 videos and notice the carnage they suffer from time to time trying to get out thru the surf.
I have to come in hot to be sure I can keep the boat straight and dodge people. We lift the windward board outside and get the leeward right at the first break. From there I have to keep it straight and inline with the waves. If it washes sideways I will hit someone. Its about having control until the rudders hit, not possible with the old style.
Looking back to be sure the rudders are unlocked could be a recipe for disaster!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:59 am 
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ncmbm wrote:
All you old style rudder guys seem to be west coast or lake sailors.


East coast ocean sailor here. Been using the old-style for decades.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:08 am 
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Thought sure you were West Coast, where on the eastern side?

I used them for years as well and still have several but the new style is considerably safer and easier. The new cams are another story, but the new system is much more forgiving and in my situation I wouldn't consider going back.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:25 am 
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Jersey.

I agree that the new system is pretty much fool-proof (except when the cam gets flipped the wrong way which can also cause big issues). But we've managed to keep going with the old style on our original '85 boat. As long as the system is dialed in, it still seems to work OK and will kick up when you hit bottom. I usually try to check the operation of the rudders each day with the boat on the beach wheels before launching to make sure they kick up as intended.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Another New Jersey H18 sailor here with old style castings. I agree with srm. Keep the cam-lock grease liberally and the old style rudders kick up reliably.

I do bring the rudder up (out of locked position) if I have a opportunity before hitting the beach. If I’m in the surf I have more fear of dropping down on the bottom with locked rudders than not kicking up. In lake or inner-coastal sailing I usually have time to raise the rudders.

Love the wrap!

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