Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:58 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Kayak "sailing" rudder
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:01 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:53 pm
Posts: 6
Is there much steering improvement in replacing the regular rudder (on a tandem kayak like the Oasis) with a kayak "sailing" rudder?

Does the sailing rudder extend any deeper than the tip of the regular Mirage-Drive fins? If so, how much deeper?

Has anyone had problems with this modification? Will the "sailing" rudder still "Twist & Stow" properly?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:53 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:40 pm
Posts: 356
I installed the sailing rudder on my 2010 Outback because the additional drag using a down rigger caused the kayak not to track straight ahead.
The improvement was dramatic and improved the normal steerage too...much quicker to turn.
The sailing rudder is about 3 1/2" longer and 2 1/2" wider overall once installed.
No problem using the twist and stow feature.....can't say if the sailing rudder hangs down any deeper than the regular fins...I run turbo fins. :wink:

_________________
Dr.SteelheadCatcher
Hood River, OR


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:11 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:18 am
Posts: 196
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Two weeks ago, we found ourselves in some very rough chop. My wife was in the Adventure and I was in a Revo 13. Both had the standard rudder. My wife had no problem cutting through the chop in the Adventure but I was teeter-tottering pretty heavily.
Steering was difficult for me as the smaller rudder couldn't grab the water very well with me bouncing all over the place. I ordered a sailing rudder for all 3 of our Hobies and my hope is that the larger surface area will have an easier time grabbing the water so I will be able to steer better in rough waters.
I also read on someone's post that the larger rudder helps you track better in the cross-winds.

Also, this is a good way to lead up to selling my wife on getting a sail......we already have the rudder, what's a few more dollars?

_________________
Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:30 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Auckland NZ
Having owned a number of Hobies over 7 years I can tell you that the first thing I did on my Adventure and Outfitter was to replace the std rudder with the sailing rudder. The improvement in turning ability is noticeable & personally I would not consider an Adventure or double without this upgrade.

The larger rudder is necessary, IMHO, if you are going to sail using the Hobie sail (using a typical downwind-only sail you might be able to get away with the std rudder because of only really needing to use the rudder to follow the sail but if you need to sail upwind the smaller rudder will not give sufficient bite in the full range of conditions that you will be able to sail in.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:46 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Ontario, Canada
The newest Oasis comes with the larger rudder. So if you're talking about a 2010 or older boat, then yes, I would replace the rudder. If you're talking about a 2011 or newer boat, then you already have the larger sailing rudder.

The Oasis has very different handling based on if there is one person or two in the boat. One thing that can help with turning is to have the front person leave their fins against the boat, while the rear person leaves them down (when making a sharp turn) this allows the boat to have a pivot point.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:25 am
Posts: 27
Prior to purchasing our two Hobies we tested both rudders, hands down the sailing dder made a huge difference so we added the sailing rudder to the purchase immediately and haven't looked back!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:53 pm
Posts: 6
augaug - We'll be getting one of the newer models, so I'm glad to hear about the rudder upgrade that Hobie has made standard on the Oasis. I was not aware of that. Also, good point about fin position for the forward MirageDrive - makes sense. Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Ontario, Canada
I've also found that soloing the Oasis is best from the front. If you don't carry any ballast (which is not a necessity at all) sitting in the front, again changes that pivot point, and you end up having the back turn out a bit more than the front.

Think of a forklift with the rear tires steering. That's what it feels like when you steer from the front seat while soloing. It was interesting to me to see the differences in the way the boat handled with different people on board, or depending on if you solo'd from the front or rear seat.

After owning the Revolution and the Adventure (Island) I have to say that I'm starting to really love the Oasis. I think it's my favourite pure kayak. (The AI could truly sail, so that added a different dimension) The speed isn't bad, the capacity is amazing, and it's just fine as a solo boat. It's great to be able to take people out on a Mirage Drive boat and just let them enjoy it with you. There's no skill, great speed with two people, and silence! No paddle splashes.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:26 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:27 pm
Posts: 407
If I may, I'd like to ask if anyone has any experience with the sailing rudder (vs stock rudder) in the surf or with waves washing over the stern. My Revo11 is a bit skittish when it starts to get rough, and I need to have my senses about me when the waves start overtaking me on my way back into the beach. I want to upgrade the rudder for normal conditions, but afraid that it will present a larger surface area to the waves that could then turn me sideways and contribute to rolling the yak.
Thoughts :?:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:55 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:59 am
Posts: 471
Jcanracer wrote:
but afraid that it will present a larger surface area to the waves that could then turn me sideways and contribute to rolling the yak.
Thoughts :?:


Should not be a problem with the sailing rudder. The waves will be the problem no matter what size the rudder. Good Luck


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: High Point, NC
Wndrfl,

Get the sail. Really, get the sail.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:28 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:02 am
Posts: 53
First thing I do with all my hobie's is swap out the stock rudders and add the sailing rudder, makes a big difference with all of them. Its the cheapest upgrade you can perform and good bang for the buck.

_________________
Currently own: 2012 AI, 2 - 2012 Revo 13's, 2012 Revo 11,
Sold: 2-2011 Oasis, 2010 Outback, 08 Outback, 08 Adventure, 06 Kona


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:25 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1039
Location: sarasota,fl
Airhog :
With our Hobies we always have our sails along (our favorite thing to do around Florida gulf coast is sail). On our older Oasis, in order to sail you almost had to get the larger rudder in order to sail. On our Revo, the bigger sailing rudder is optional (the standard rudder does a sufficient job). My wife also had a concern about the depth of the sailing rudder and was reluctant to have one installed. I installed the larger rudder but sawed off and re-contoured the bottom so it was no deeper in the water than the standard rudder. The rudder was still bigger and performed better but maintained the depth of the standard rudder (she was happy with that). I did not do that with the Oasis though, we needed all the rudder we could get. The new bigger rudder doesn't effect the operation of the twist and stow system, still works fine. If you have a newer Oasis, the rudder is larger from the factory, I would try it out sailing before purchasing a new sailing rudder (might be just fine).
The larger rudders are one of the cheaper Hobie upgrades, and well worth doing, even if your not sailing all the time.

Hope this helps
Fusioneng


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Auckland NZ
Jcanracer - in my experience the difficulty arises when a wave picks you up and surfs you in and no amount of rudder is going to be sufficient to counteract the turning power of a boat that is being flung shoreward by a sizeable wave. It is not the rudder that causes the boat to start turning but the effort of the wave pushing the boat from behind the point of resistance - once the boat gets off line it will start to turn and very quickly the turning becomes irresistable... and usually you end up being rolled.

I recommend that you practise techniques for preventing waves from pushing you in by slowing your boat for each one that comes up behind you.

In smaller waves this can be done with your paddle with a reverse stroke.

As the waves get a bit bigger you need to hang your feet over the sides of the boat AND use your paddle in reverse.

The bad news is that waves can get so big that it is impossible to prevent the boat from surfing with just paddle and feet. For these conditions I have three different tactics: 1. Don't go out in big wave conditions; 2. Don't return to shore on surf beaches, and 3. Carry a small series drogue to chuck out of the back of the boat before pedaling in through big waves. The latter solution works extremely well but you have to remember to carry it, know how to deploy it and, most likely, have it already set up for use which is not always convenient so I tend to rely heavily on 1 & 2 :P

Either way the larger rudder may go some way towards helping maintain directional stability during some surfing re-entries but it should not contribute to making your boat more likely to turn & roll... unless you have not got it centred (and a passing wave can and will want to knock any rudder about a bit) which is yet another thing to attend to in the ~1.5 seconds during which your re-entry goes from yay! to nay! so I always lift my rudder before coming in to shore.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:33 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:27 pm
Posts: 407
Stobbo, thank you for the insight!
And yes I have learned the trick of hanging my legs off the side for additional stability on surf landings. Haha glad to see I'm not the only one that does this.
I think I will order that sailing rudder after all.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group