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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:25 pm 
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Location: Puget Sound, Washington USA
Wow — what an informative thread! I think I’m ready to start making my hakas, but we need to finish having our house built first so I have a workshop again. While I’m waiting I’m trying to understanding something about using hakas on the TI.

From other threads — and from my first summer sailing the TI (or anything for that matter) — I find that the TI tends to be heavy in the bow when solo sailed from the front seat. This makes for a wet ride and a slower ride because the bow is digging in. I haven’t tried the modifications yet to be able to sail from the rear (changing the angle of the furling cleat, as I recall).

The haka looks great for a whole bunch of reasons — the most important being to move weight sideways so as to level the TI and keep one ama from burying and thus increasing drag. But most of the hakas pictured only have seating as far aft as the regular forward seat. When the haka does extend beyond the aka a foot or so, I do not see anyone sitting back there near the edge. (Does seem a bit precarious — and springy).

So I’m wondering, does keeping the TI level make for better and faster sailing than keeping the bow up? Seems like you can’t do both with the TI. Should I make a haka — or just move to the back of the bus?

(Actually, I’ll still make hakas for their other benefits: camping platform, aka collapse prevention, ability to move about the boat a bit, extra passenger room, picnic space, storage, high and dry ride, etc.)

Thanks for helping a rank amateur at sailing.

Puget


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:06 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
There I was, just cruising around, stopping on various sandbanks amongst the tourists, when I came ashore next to a bunch of nubile bikini-clad supermodels^H^H^H^H^H^H^H young women, who happened to be celebrating a hen's party.

The most awesome one came over when she noticed my Drift video cam, and asked if I could take a photo of her pretending to fish from my TI.

Of course I told her to clear off^H^H^Hoffered to take her for a sail, to which she eagerly replied (that is her on the right in this pathetically blurry extract from a frame of my video) Image

So off we went, and immediately a huge gust arrived the moment I unfurled the sail, and with no way on, the rudder didn't respond and I careered straight across the small channel into a rocky shore, bending my Miragedrive fins and breaking the port side aka brace bolt.

I pushed back off the shore, extracted the drive, and unfurled a tiny amount of sail, only to be instantly hit by another huge gust! Before I knew it, I fell off my "captain's chair" into the drink... I quickly furled the rest of the sail, and lifted the centreboard, and my passenger politely asked if I could take her back to shore (I thought she was very cool considering).

Before I could get back on board, a couple of guys turned up with an outboard-powered inflatable, and towed us the 25 metres back to the girls on the sandbank.

There, I was fussed over by this bunch of young things, who fitted the replacement aka brace bolt, and I found myself as drinks holder while surrounded by my new friends. :D :D

What went wrong? I forgot I am an old fart turning 67 next week, and should have avoided trying to be the hero! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:45 am 
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Location: Plant City, Fl.
Puget, I have had my TI for over two years now and find that I sail from the back seat or out on my boards. It allows me to balance the TI both side to side and back to front. I bought stand up paddle boards to use as haka's and they reach from the back of the front hatch to the back MD slot and I mount a stadium seat to each side for back support with the tie down on the back aka so my weight is just behind the back aka. I use the front control lines, but peddle from the back. The fastest sailing is with the TI balanced in both directions.
Image

Tonystott, You forgot the " and then I woke up" from your story... :mrgreen:

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The world is 70% water – So that means we should spend 70% more time sailing than mowing lawns!
Larry


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:12 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Larry, it did indeed seem like a dream, but the bitter-sweet memory is for real 8)
The one on the left is wearing a mini bridal veil, and the booze was in the boat :lol: :lol:
Image

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:29 am 
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Location: Plant City, Fl.
Tony, Did they do the wedding there on the sandbar? Great to find new friends but sorry you broke your TI, I know how that feels - waiting on parts. :mrgreen:

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“Remember life is short- eat dessert first.”
The world is 70% water – So that means we should spend 70% more time sailing than mowing lawns!
Larry


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:42 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
No, it was just a hen's party (equivalent of a buck's night).

As for the TI, I straightened the Miragedrive masts and refitted the fins today. One has a tear about 2 inches long down from the top, so I will reinforce it with glassfibre tape and Aquaseal. So the only financial cost was the loss of my masthead wind indicator, which got catapulted off the mast in the impact, and I couldn't find it on the shore. (Embarrassment, on the other hand, was off the scale!)

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:37 pm
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Location: Puget Sound, Washington USA
Quote:
Puget, I have had my TI for over two years now and find that I sail from the back seat or out on my boards. It allows me to balance the TI both side to side and back to front. I bought stand up paddle boards to use as haka's and they reach from the back of the front hatch to the back MD slot and I mount a stadium seat to each side for back support with the tie down on the back aka so my weight is just behind the back aka. I use the front control lines, but peddle from the back. The fastest sailing is with the TI balanced in both directions.



Yes, I see that your seat is behind the aka. The back support of the seat keeps you from slipping off the edge and the SUP is rigid rather than springy. I was thinking of using wood slats for a haka (I'm not much good with metal working), but it looks like I need one or two aluminum beams to run the full length of the haka for rigidity behind the aka. Thanks

Puget


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 270
Location: Clearwater, Fl
Finally recycled my old hakas and fabricated a set of new and improved wooden hakas. The old set worked fine but were too heavy and inefficient. This new set is much lighter ... from about 17.5 lbs to 10 pounds each.

I followed NOHUHU's lead in making the 3 slat hakas with the length shortened by about 10 inches with rounded outer slats. Also replaced the stainless bolts with the wood screws and glue that "Batman" suggested. I had to fill all the holes with wood putty and it looks so much better not seeing holes in the hakas.

I kept the lightweight aluminum reinforcement underbar for extra strength in case I gain any weight. There's virtually no sag at all when I'm sitting on them. There is one bungee on each end of the hakas so installing them on the AI takes about 5 seconds. Additionally there's 3 haka extensions with several starports mounted on the outer side of the hakas.

Thanks again NOHUHU and Batman !

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:00 am 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 6:23 pm
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Location: Jacksonville, Florida
tonystott wrote:
There I was, just cruising around, stopping on various sandbanks amongst the tourists, when I came ashore next to a bunch of nubile bikini-clad supermodels^H^H^H^H^H^H^H young women, who happened to be celebrating a hen's party.

The most awesome one came over when she noticed my Drift video cam, and asked if I could take a photo of her pretending to fish from my TI.

Of course I told her to clear off^H^H^Hoffered to take her for a sail, to which she eagerly replied (that is her on the right in this pathetically blurry extract from a frame of my video) Image

So off we went, and immediately a huge gust arrived the moment I unfurled the sail, and with no way on, the rudder didn't respond and I careered straight across the small channel into a rocky shore, bending my Miragedrive fins and breaking the port side aka brace bolt.

I pushed back off the shore, extracted the drive, and unfurled a tiny amount of sail, only to be instantly hit by another huge gust! Before I knew it, I fell off my "captain's chair" into the drink... I quickly furled the rest of the sail, and lifted the centreboard, and my passenger politely asked if I could take her back to shore (I thought she was very cool considering).

Before I could get back on board, a couple of guys turned up with an outboard-powered inflatable, and towed us the 25 metres back to the girls on the sandbank.

There, I was fussed over by this bunch of young things, who fitted the replacement aka brace bolt, and I found myself as drinks holder while surrounded by my new friends. :D :D

What went wrong? I forgot I am an old fart turning 67 next week, and should have avoided trying to be the hero! :lol: :lol: :lol:


You should have started that with "Dear Playboy" and embellished a bit.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:33 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Why? I believe those letters are exaggerations of the truth. Here's another frame from my video of the rest of the girls - note the veil on the one on the left.
Image

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 120
Location: South Florida (Coral Springs)
After much inspiration here, I finally finished my wooden hakas, and given them their first sea trial. Let me just say that, wow, what a different experience it is sailing with these (for the better). I thought I'd split time between sitting on them and in the cockpit, but I spent nearly my entire 3 hour sail, except for some downwind time, up on the hakas. Also, since I chose to build the "expedition" model (not light weight...built for comfort not speed), I hung out for some time lounging on the water. I could go on, but onto the specifics of my design.

As anything we do, a lot is trial and error, looking at what others have done, and ultimately, deciding what is best for you. While I really like what I have done, I would probably do a few things different if I were to build them again.

My hakas are 6 foot 2 inches in length, built out of 1" x 3" and 1" x 4" Spruce Pine. They weigh in at about 20 pounds, which is much heavier than I would have liked. (They were only 18 pounds before the epoxy and varnish.) The spruce pine, also called "whitewood" at the local big box store, is soft. The epoxy not only gives the wood the ultimate protection, but hardened it right up as well. However, this was one of the most expensive parts of the project. I used West Systems 105 Epoxy Resin. I believe it was around $60 for the resin and hardener. This allowed me 2 coats. I then came back with 3 coats of marine varnish. Oh, and I stained the benches before applying anything. While the epoxy was probably good enough without the varnish, I read that it could turn colors due to the lack of UV inhibitors which the varnish possesses. However, the varnish itself gave the color a bit of a yellowish hue. Between the slight coloration of epoxy and varnish, it's really not the same color as the stain I started with. But I guess the yellow hue matches my boat better! By the way, I had never used either of these products before, and with not that really close inspection, the untrained eye could probably tell as much. It was kind of disappointing, as I spent a lot of time with the finish prior to applying anything. I just had to tell myself that these are not furniture, but something to be banged around, submerged in water, and abused outdoors, so it shouldn't really matter.

Here they are before finishing, with my inspector going over some of the final touches. Notice that I cantilevered the rear. I did this after speaking with Sun E Sailor when he noted that he found himself sitting more on the back side. I didn't want to add to the overall length, thus the asymmetrical design. The problem I had to deal with was how to strengthen the rear, cantilevered portion. You will notice in the following photos that I embedded 2 - 1/8" thick aluminum angles.

Image

Here you can better see how I embedded these to provide the extra stiffness, as well as not interfere with the akas. I will note that there is still a little flex, and I'm not sure how much the flex was reduced in the rear with the addition to these. My very quick and unscientific seat of the pants test, didn't result in any conclusive results.

Image

I would have filled the center front part in for a more refined finish, but I left it open for the possibility of future enhancements. For instance, I noticed the arm of my anchor fits nicely in the center with it open.

Image

Image

Image

Image

This is looking at downtown Miami from the rear of the hakas on their maiden voyage.

Image

From the bottom, you will notice the 2 vertical members I used for the support. These vertical members are the only 1"x4" pieces I used. Everything else was made from 1"x3" pieces of pine. You will also notice the pieces of neoprene rubber used to protect the akas. Also, all the screws are on the bottom. If doing again, I would use much less of these due to cost (stainless steel), weight, and the fact I don't think I really needed them since I glued everything.

Image

Although it's a little more weight, I'm glad I went with the 2 vertical members due to the additional rigidity. Maybe a denser wood, would have given me more stiffness, and could have done closer the equivalent of my two. There's still a bit of flex, but not much. I weigh close to 190 pounds. One of the other reasons I did 2 instead of 1, is so I could lie them flat on the ground and not have them tip over. I thought it would be nice if I were to camp somewhere, to be able to pull these off, and to have them be stable on the ground for sitting, or using as a table.

Image

I must mention my hiking stick, or rudder control extension also, as this was a problem I wanted to solve before completing the hakas. I used the RAM mount system as noted by Sun E Sailor in a previous post. The differences are I screwed it directly into the rudder handle, and used an extendable aluminum paint brush pole that you twist to extend, which I paid around $7 for on Amazon. It all worked excellent on my first voyage.

Image

Image

So there it is. I thank NOHUHU and everyone else here for the inspiration.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Well done, with very clear photos!

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Awesome post. You should be able to jump on those with no worries.

I totally agree with your double span rational. It can be awkward transporting, stacking and balancing those boards with a single asymmetrical span.

BTW, I just spray mine with a couple coats of spar varnish. And I enjoy having a little flex in them.

Try them for awhile and tell us if you end up making regular use of the extra rear seating. For a TI, this might be a more useful add on.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:27 am 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
Nice work flaneur. Did you manage to find a paint brush pole with a 1/2" fitting to match the RAM pipe clevis or did you have to modify it? I've been having trouble finding an ideal handle for my tiller extension. I've got an old paint roller extension lying around, but it's 3/4".

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Location: South Florida (Coral Springs)
chrisj wrote:
Nice work flaneur. Did you manage to find a paint brush pole with a 1/2" fitting to match the RAM pipe clevis or did you have to modify it? I've been having trouble finding an ideal handle for my tiller extension. I've got an old paint roller extension lying around, but it's 3/4".

Here's the pole I ordered.
http://www.amazon.com/Ace-Twist-Extension-EP203GGA11-1-2M/dp/B000QJAG1I/ref=pd_ybh_5
The threaded end of the pole was too big to fit into the RAM pipe clevis. However, since it was larger, and made out of plastic, I was able to easily use my grinder to remove the threads. Once the threads were removed, just a little extra touch up and it fit nice and snug into the pipe clevis. Using the a bench grinder, it was pretty quick and easy work. I just had to keep test fitting, as you do not want to get it too small.

NOHUHU wrote:
Try them for awhile and tell us if you end up making regular use of the extra rear seating. For a TI, this might be a more useful add on.

Granted I only used these once, I found myself sitting mostly over the rear aka. Even though I wasn't sitting directly on the cantilevered portion, I found it useful to have as it provided me a better platform to reach back and grab for better comfort and balance, and it also added a little comfort to not have my rear right on the edge.


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