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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Hi,

I know close to nothing about sailing and
look at Hobie 16 as possible first boat.
What is the maximum wind speed at which it is possible to sail if the waves are modest (like on the lake or enclosed gulf)?
What will happen first at that speed - will it capsize or get broken?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:57 pm 
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there is no max wind. it depends if your comfortable sailing in strong wind. the max i will sail in is 20 mph.
but hobies can survive gusts of 70mph watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAir7zc ... hA&index=2

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:32 pm 
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There's nothing wrong with a Hobie 16 as a first boat. Lots of people have started there. If you're worried about wind speed, and haven't sailed before, I'd consider looking at something like a Hobie Wave. There are some great videos on here showing a Wave in high wind conditions. All it does is fly a hull, and eventually tip. It's easy to right, and a lot of fun.

Use the search function on the forum here to look for posts by the user name "Creative"

He's got some great videos showing the Wave in higher winds.

As optikid pointed out, the maximum wind speed at which it is possible to sail depends much more on the sailor than the boat. But if you're looking to sail in higher winds, and you don't have a tremendous amount of experience, I would start with a slighter smaller boat. The boat isn't likely to break in any type of wind that you have the courage to go out in, but you will likely tip, and a smaller boat is going to be easier to right than a larger boat. Righting a boat is a sailing skill that needs to be learned.

My Bravo tips much easier than a 16, but it also rights much easier, and as a learning sailor, you'll appreciate that, because you'll make a mistake, tip, and then be sailing again in seconds if you have the right boat.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:29 pm 
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with over 35 years of sailing under my belt that includes hobies, windsurfers, racing keelboats, and even instructing, i believe that the best boat to learn on is a sunfish. they are super easy to learn the essentials with and almost indestructable. also, you can have a ton of fun with them in the biggest of blows withoug getting in trouble.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Location: Jersey Shore
If you're trying to learn to sail (on any boat really, but especially a Hobie 16), you will want to stay with windspeed of about the 5 to 10 mph range. Any less than 5 mph, and the wind will likely be too flukey for you to get a good sense of what's going on. Any more than 10mph, and things will likely happen so quickly that you risk capsizing or getting out of control. Tacking and staying upwind also become difficult. As you get better, the wind limit basically depends on you. Top sailors can handle 30mph wind or occasionally more.

The suggestion of starting with a Sunfish or other small dinghy is a good one. These boats are relatively cheap (used), readily available, hold their resale value, and do a good job of teaching you the basics. After a year, you sell the Sunfish and move up to a Hobie.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
I'll repeat the advice on a Sunfish. Quick to set up, good action, easy to fix things when you make a whoops, and many have survived years of teenagers. It's what I started on, and even after years of sailing, most people still have fun on them.

I just bought a Hobie 16. I was looking for something more complex (it is), harder to solo sail (it's a two person boat), and capable of being sailed at a variety of levels (here it does beat a Sunfish). First time I joined the Capsize Club, I couldn't get it back up. I never had that problem with a Sunfish.

Set up time is at least triple on the Hobie 16. And the only way a beginner could handle it solo is to drop the jib. (Solo on the Hobie 16 you have the tiller, main sheet, jib sheet, and travelers compared to the Sunfish with just a tiller and main sheet.) Dropping the jib on a Hobie 16 means your tacking problems become even worse. And nailing tacks on a Hobie 16 without stalling is going to take a lot of practice.

Both boats will survive any wind you'll be able to survive. Both boats are incredibly rugged and survive a lot of bangs and bumps. Of course, you'll break things but most of the time, you have to work at it. As stated, for a beginner sailor, 5 - 10 mph wind is about right. Once you feel comfortable with that speed, then you start upping it. And when you over-power yourself with wind (you'll do it, we all do), you'll back down for a bit, then wait to try it again.

Biggest difference to the two is performance. The Hobie 16 is a lot faster then the Sunfish. But guess what? The seat of the pants sensation isn't that different. A Sunfish on a reach with the hull planing will seem a lot faster then you ever thought possible.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:44 pm 
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If you're going to consider a Sunfish, why not consider a Bravo?

A lot of Hobie guys will recommend a Sunfish purely because they haven't tried a Bravo. It's a cat! Cats fly! Not to mention it's faster! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Location: Jersey Shore
I agree the Bravo or Wave would also be decent choices for a total beginner. The main advantage of the Sunfish (or Laser) is availability. Lots of these boats exist on the used market and decent ones can be readily found for around $1000 or less. The main thing is to start out on a boat that's simple to set up and sail. Hobie 16s are great boats, but they pose some substantial learning challenges to beginners with zero sailing experience.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Thanks All for information :-),

I feel it would be really more reasonable to start from Sunfish or Hobie Bravo.

So what we have about wind is
learning - 5 to 10 mph
comfortable - up to 20 mph
top sailors - up to 30 mph
recorded maximum - up to 70 mph gusts

I am currently near the point where the averages are above 10 knots:
http://www.windfinder.com/windstats/win ... elaide.htm
that is why I asked about the wind.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:11 am 
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Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
Hi Aleksey,

With most of my sailing time in various dinghies growing up, many home made, I would like to throw out a few pluses for the Bravo vs. the Sunfish. Both are great little boats and do well exactly what the others have mentioned above.

Solo, I'd have a hard time putting one over the other except for maybe set up time. The Bravo is so easy to rig I feel like I'm cheating.

If you like to bring a friend, a Bravo can be more comfortable in certain situations an not in others. The Sunfish has the small deck hatch for your legs that gives you a more comfortable sitting position and two people can sit within it comfortably. This is a plus on light air days. However, that works best when you sit on opposite sides. If you want both people on the same side to hike out a bit in more wind, it gets kind of cramped. No elbow room, so to speak.

The Bravo has/needs no centerboard so you can sail it's tough poly hulls right up to the beach under power without fiddling with a centerboard. Super easy. Add to this that you just pull a line and in 2-3 seconds your sail is completely reefed in around the rotating mast and landings are almost foolproof.

In short, both are absolutely great solo or duo boats to get you having fun fast.

For my wife and I's prime purpose of using it as a quick taxi to the beach across the bay and for quick, evening sails after work, the Bravo has proven to be the perfect solution.

I'm craving a Wave a bit so I can still have an easy to set up boat that will handle the finicky gusts better on days when I probably shouldn't be sailing anyways. However, I don't know if I can give up a boat that I can get into the water as fast as the Bravo. It is light enough that I can drag it into the water from where I park it on the shore myself without any assistance. I'm not sure I could drag the wave myself without help or without the bother of rigging up beach wheels.

Just wanted to share my thoughts as the purchase (this spring) is still fresh in my mind.


Last edited by Murph_PEI on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:32 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Aleksey:
My first sailboat was a sunfish where I learned to sail on wisconsin lakes when I was younger. Had many fun summers with that boat. However I only ever thought about using the boat for day sailing, if we wanted to go out fishing we would take another type of boat, if we wanted to go on rivers and exploring we would take something else (mostly canoes in those days). My family had a big cabin cruiser on the Mississippi and I spent many summers out in the backwaters having fun. I never felt comfortable taking that small sunfish out into big water like lake michigan. Eventually I got much more interested in racing hydroplanes so I missed the H16 craze in the 70's. Now I'm older and live right near the water in Florida. I still love the water and go out whenever possible, but operating costs, gas, and boat storage for powerboats down here is way too expensive. We wanted a boat that we could use for everything water related, not one for just day sailing, then another for fishing, and yet another for river excursions (camping/exploring adventures). We also have many visitors (from up north), and take out sometimes 3-4 or more people (adults and kids) out on the water.
I also wanted something that is Ocean capable so if I do get caught in 2-3 ft seas and 20-25mph winds I don't flounder (I would have been very scared in my sunfish in those conditions). We find the ocean to be very large and sometimes need to cover 30-40 miles to get where we want to go and back, often times across open water (especially in Key West).
I'm not trying to influence you to any one type of boat or another, I'm only describing our logic and what weighed our choice as to what type of boat to buy as our only boat.
We ended up buying what I believe is the most popular and most versatile boat on the market today. With the Mirage drive system there is no day you cannot take the boat out. Anything from no wind to pretty much any conditions (within reason ~30mph winds) the boat will will get you home. The best part for us is we keep it in the garage, and throw it on our car roof whenever we travel, and can be launched from the side of the road or any parking lot, or kayak/canoe launch, sets up easily and quickly. If you have ever had to hand paddle a sunfish across a lake when the wind dies at sunset, you would appreciate the mirage drive system (I'm sure most of us have had to do that a few times).
I'm not suggesting you buy any one type of boat or another, I'm only discribing that the Hobie Tandem Island was our choice, and we are very happy with it.
Once you have a little experience and settle on what you really like to do (if you want speed), adding something like a used H16 to your fleet would be a really good choice, the AI or TI could still be used for everything else water related. Personally I would skip the sunfish, and personally I think the H16 might be a bit much for your first boat, unless you hang with a bunch of H16 sailers, then it's a no brainer, just go right to the H16, your friends will help you select a boat, and get you going on the right track.
Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:26 pm 
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I'll ditto the sunfish or bravo (if you can find one!). If I had to start over I probably would have gotten the bravo but I don't think I could have convinced the wife to spend that kind of money at that time.

I easily found a sunfish in good shape for $400 and then I paid an extra $100 for a ratty old sunfish that had a trailer, just to have the trailer. There is always a sunfish or two popping up on CL. Now is a good time to start looking as you'll have several months, depending on where you live, to find one that is in good shape. Go google "buying a sunfish" to figure out what to look for when buying one. Seems like the sunfish is probably a little bit more of a hassle to set up, but I am talking 10-15 minutes tops. It's very light and easy to flop around. Yes you do have to be more careful with it around the beach, as it is fiberglass, than the bravo.

Bravo looks like a ton of fun and really easy to set up, it's main drawback is that there isn't a whole lot of them out there and not a huge used market like the sunfish. Sunfish is fun but a cat will always be more fun. The sunfish is really NOT that comfortable with 2 on there. My wife never really enjoyed it. Of course she prefers to work on her tan and let me do the sailing. There is no where really to just lay down on a sunfish.

After sailing the sunfish for a couple of years I just bought a hobie 16 this year. Yes lots more complicated to setup and so much faster and way more fun. Plus lots of room on the tramp for my wife and dog do just hang out. Every now and then I have to ask her to work the jib as we come around but I always give her another beer as a thank you. I give the dog a treat for not jumping off. Seems to keep both of them happy.

I think if I had tried to start with the H16 without a couple of years on the sunfish or something similar I probably would have been in way over my head and would have walked away frustrated and my wife wouldn't have had much fun either and that probably would have been the end of that. Also after a couple of years with the sunfish and being able to turn around and sell it for actually more than I paid for it allowed me to convince my wife to spend twice that on a Hobie. She didn't care at all and is now very happy as well and enjoying the boat much more.

Basically if you have the money and can find one, buy a bravo. Otherwise, if you are just seeing if this something you want to do, need to save a little money, buy a sunfish.

BTW if you live near the shore you should try calling places that rent sailboats. A lot of times they clear their inventory to get new stuff and they might give you a good price on a used one, that's true for both the sunfish and bravo. Here in NC, most of the sunfishes are found at the lake rental centers and the cats are found on the beaches/inner-coastal.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:24 am 
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One important thing to consider is how many people will sail with you. I have three kids and a sunfish, pram, zuma, laser maybe even the small Hobies do not have enough room. What is your crew size is most important. I taught my kids on an American 18, simple rig, easy to set up and now moved back to a Hobie 16, which I sailed as a kid in the 70's. American also makes a 14.6 model. If you are solo only then a sunfish or consider a Zuma which is a slow laser or even a laser. My 2 cents


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:29 pm 
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srm wrote:
If you're trying to learn to sail (on any boat really, but especially a Hobie 16), you will want to stay with windspeed of about the 5 to 10 mph range. Any less than 5 mph, and the wind will likely be too flukey for you to get a good sense of what's going on. Any more than 10mph, and things will likely happen so quickly that you risk capsizing or getting out of control. Tacking and staying upwind also become difficult. As you get better, the wind limit basically depends on you. Top sailors can handle 30mph wind or occasionally more.

The suggestion of starting with a Sunfish or other small dinghy is a good one. These boats are relatively cheap (used), readily available, hold their resale value, and do a good job of teaching you the basics. After a year, you sell the Sunfish and move up to a Hobie.

sm


I concur, but the wind speeds are relatively progressive. When first learning to sail, (I learned to sail on a H16, solo) I used to pray for 5 mph winds. After a while, I use to pray for 10 mph winds but it is at that point, the water gets to be a little rough (white caps begin at about that wind spead). As time went on, I ended up praying for 20 mph winds with the waves and swells. It's all about overcoming your fears.

When I first purchaced my boat, I just wanted to day sail. Then one day, two guys with a boat just like mine went flying by me, one hull out of the water, both trapped out in harnesses. This was the beginning of my addiction. I knew I wanted to do "THAT !!!"

But know that in order for you to make these transitions, you will have to capsize. Once I realized that capsizing was not a "death sentence," I began to push my limits and overcome more fears. If you just want to day sail solo (as "Bodhi" has already mentioned), then look for a smaller boat. However, if you're in good health and/or plan on having a crew, or you want to achieve a level of performance that will make your heart beat about 200 times a minute, get a Hobie 16. Just my 4 cents !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:27 pm 
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DavidBell47 wrote:
However, if you're in good health and/or plan on having a crew, or you want to achieve a level of performance that will make your heart beat about 200 times a minute, get a Hobie 16.

+1

You can approach it in 2 different ways. If you want a nice and easy, then get a Laser of a Bravo, practice for a year or 2, then get H16. But if you want to get on the fast lane faster, then get H16 now. This will take a more effort and possibly growing pains at start, but guarantees to get the reward quicker. Just as srm suggested, start with light air. I would say, 3-7 knt. A 10 could be too much. Also make sure you have easy access to water, such as a wide sandy beach. Make sure you do your homework. Read as much as you can about catamaran sailing and apply the theory to practice. This worked for me.

Keep us posted on your progress. We like pictures and videos... :wink:

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