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 Post subject: Advice on pa, ob, rev
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:49 pm 
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Location: Huskisson, NSW, Australia
Hi hobie forum,

I am buying a yak and live in a town called Vincentia in Jervis Bay, NSW Australia, and cant decide between benefits/disadvantages of the PA /REV13 and the OB.

I will primarily be using it to fish in jervis bay, which as some know is a reasonable sheltered bay some 60km in circumference. I say reasonable because at times it can become quite rough and many of the beaches have waves that surfers use.

I was kindly offered a demo by Daniel at Paddle, pedal, sail in Huskisson. I tried the rev 13 and the ob. There was a bit of wind and white caps but not overly rough but at the same time no where near calm. After the demo I had more questions than answers, it made me even more confused about what I wanted.

From the many forums I have read including this one there appears to be much contradiction about the advantages and disadvantages of the boats and differing opinions. Before the demo after reading the forums I was very convinced that the rev 13 would be for me with the claims of it being better on the salt water and offshore and all round a more versatile machine. Trying the rev fist it became apparent to me (5'9 90kg) -sorry we use the metric system in oz so not quite sure of that in LB- that for me it felt tippy, unstable and didn't have the confidence to think that I could even reach to open a storage compartment without some sort of drama. Initially I had the normal fin and then Daniel suggested I try the turbos...felt like a completely different boat-fast, streamline and using only half the effort in the peddling (why they are not standard is beyond me, but I guess at the end of the day Hobie is a business and they make money lol).

I then tried the Outback and to my surprise felt much more stable, dryer had the sense of the cockpit being removed from the water unlike in the rev where it felt like i was In the water!. While I didnt go very far out in the boats I was perplexed as to why the prevailing opinions on the net judge the rev as much more competent in the rough stuff??. I did notice that the rev was faster, but with the turbo fins the OB seemed to be adequate and for me a negligible difference in speed isnt relevant.

After much thinking I started to look into the PA12 which I assume is even more stable than the OB and I like the idea of being much more separated and dryer from the water. (I want a Kayak as a trade off for not having to maintain a power boat, so being immersed in the water which I experienced in the rev isn't my motivation for buying one.

So I would much appreciate if those in the know could share their experiences with the PA12 and its pros and cons. For instance, Is it much slower than both the OB and rev?, its it stable enough offshore providing your not out there during an antarctic blast or a tsunami?. Is the effort requiring you to maintain speed more demanding in the PA?.

Or would a rev 13 with the side buoys be a compromise.

Unless you live in Tasmania one of the drawbacks to living on the driest continent is we dont have the thousands of fresh water lakes and rivers that you lucky north americans are blessed with!, so we have to work with the miserable salt water oceans and their manners.

And one other thing, why do different models get separated in fishing vs range?. When I go out fishing I do long distances anyway.

Cheers,

Ben


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 158
Location: vero beach, fl
i dont have a lot of experience with other Hobie models, having only fished a day or so in a couple of other models, but i have some input with the PA series. we have a 14 with the original seating, a 12 and a new 14 with the new seating. we bought PA boats for that reason--we wanted 'boats'. not being concerned with price or car-top carry, i think the PA is an obvious choice. it was for us anyway. we fish 99% in salt water, both inshore and offshore. being a tournament boat angler for 20+ years, i still have a need to carry tons of stuff, need to be stable while traveling and while fishing and need to be able to stand to sight fish. for these reasons, i'll never have anything but a PA.
i primarily fish out of the 12, and at 5'-9", 90k i find no problem with the shorter model. i dont think its any faster than the 14, or more or less stable. by simple math the 14 should be more stable but slightly slower, but i just dont feel it. i will say the 12 feels a hundred pounds lighter to lift and load. the difference is really only, what, 30 pounds or so? but it feels like a lot more. i have to work hard to load the 14 by myself, but the 12 is not much of a chore.

hope this helps.

cheers.
drew

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Location: Huskisson, NSW, Australia
Thanks Drew,

Today I went in and brought the pa12, you are very right, after seeing it in the flesh for the first time and next to the ob, rev, adventure etc it really is in a class of its own. It is not a kayak--it is something entirely invented by hobie.

Those that seem to think it mirrors a sluggish rock that is limited to giant swimming pools might simply be a case of jealousy for choosing another model lol.

What do you think is the best suited wallet friendly fish finder that incorporates gps?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
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Location: High Point, NC
Feeling "tippy" and actually being unstable are two entirely different things and hav ea great deal to do with the water conditions at the moment.

A sheet of 4x8 plywood wouldn't feel at all tippy on calm water. But put it in a rolling sea and you won't be able to stay on it. Conversely, a round log will simply rise and fall in that same sea.

The Revolution is among the very most stable boats Hobie has for moving, rolling waters. I would take it out in situations where I wouldn't dare take my Pro Angler.

The Pro Angler won't feel "tippy" and is a great calm water boat. But that same hull will continue to conform to the water it's in, making it roll with every swell and wave. Don't get me wrong, it will easily handle some chop and swell, but like most wide, flatter bottomed boats, it's not going to have the same secondary stability that a boat like the Revolution has.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Location: Fort Lauderdale
Congratulations on your PA . I have an OB and a PA12 , and love both You will not be sorry with your choice . Regarding fish finders ???? I have a Lowrance and friends have Humming birds .
I am very disappointed in the performance of my Elite 4 . The instructions are ???? pathetic . Ive had the unit for 4 months and still cant operate it properly ; the instructions are SO bad . The unit is okay for showing the depth contour , and giving GPS co ordinates . As for "fish finder" dont let them kid you . Maybe I was expecting to much from aFISH Finder . GPS yes dept sounder Yes
No dought there will be many comments about how great they are . WELL please give 5 or sic settings for the critical functions , that I can plug in and forget . I want to fish not play with an electric gadget


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:14 pm
Posts: 99
Location: Gales Ferry Connecticut
Ben,

I share your opinion of the Outback and the Revo. I had a Outback with Turbo fins and loved it. I fished many tournaments (saltwater) and enjoyed the Outback. It has so many “fishing features.

I now have Both PA12 and PA 14. Both Yaks Handle exceptionally well. I think the either PA’s are a great choice for Ocean fishing. The Margin of Safety is the major advantage over other Yaks. The PA 14 is more stable when standing; however the PA12 seems just as stable when seated. The PA12 handles like an Outback when in the water,

I think one of the biggest considerations has to do with weight. Handling the Yak when out of the water. The PA14 (138) weighs about 40 more lbs than the PA12 (98), Outback 65 pounds((30 Kg)) I think this becomes a major issue in choosing between a PA 12 and 14. And a Outback.

Tim


“Life is Good”

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Fishing is not a matter of life or death... It's much more important than that!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Auckland NZ
Re your question about fishfinder/gps units:

I had an eagle cuda GPS Map 250c (world map edition) and loved it but it gave up the ghost to salt water after several years use. Mapping was limited to rudimentary line drawings of land areas and sometimes you ended up floating over land but it was well good enough for my purposes and gave useful perspective to the GPS screens. I do not think this model is made any longer which is a shame.

I replaced it with a Lowrance Elite 4 DSI which I hate for several reasons:
1. not properly waterproof despite the manufacturer's claims - the map card slot needs to be sealed up before you take it out on the water! If not you risk salt water ruining both the device and your chart card which is not cheap!
2. screen too small and difficult to read - having a full navionics chart is not much use on a screen this size in my experience.
3. interface clunky - difficult to navigate the menus to what you want to do.
4. difficult to install because the cable end is huge meaning that you have to drill a great big hole in your pride and joy which must then be sealed back up.
5. detail displayed very poor e.g. it won't even detect my lure going down through the water column (which the Eagle Cuda did no problem) and doesn't seem to show many/any fish arches (that might mean that there are none there, of course!). I should say that I have it installed inside my boat shooting through the hull which is not recommended by the manufacturer but others on various forums said it would work fine like this. Putting this another way it would become another criticism of the unit: "can only be mounted outside the hull, not in-hull".

Hope this helps and good luck in finding the right device.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Location: High Point, NC
stobbo wrote:
Re your question about fishfinder/gps units:

I had an eagle cuda GPS Map 250c (world map edition) and loved it but it gave up the ghost to salt water after several years use. Mapping was limited to rudimentary line drawings of land areas and sometimes you ended up floating over land but it was well good enough for my purposes and gave useful perspective to the GPS screens. I do not think this model is made any longer which is a shame.

I replaced it with a Lowrance Elite 4 DSI which I hate for several reasons:
1. not properly waterproof despite the manufacturer's claims - the map card slot needs to be sealed up before you take it out on the water! If not you risk salt water ruining both the device and your chart card which is not cheap!
2. screen too small and difficult to read - having a full navionics chart is not much use on a screen this size in my experience.
3. interface clunky - difficult to navigate the menus to what you want to do.
4. difficult to install because the cable end is huge meaning that you have to drill a great big hole in your pride and joy which must then be sealed back up.
5. detail displayed very poor e.g. it won't even detect my lure going down through the water column (which the Eagle Cuda did no problem) and doesn't seem to show many/any fish arches (that might mean that there are none there, of course!). I should say that I have it installed inside my boat shooting through the hull which is not recommended by the manufacturer but others on various forums said it would work fine like this. Putting this another way it would become another criticism of the unit: "can only be mounted outside the hull, not in-hull".

Hope this helps and good luck in finding the right device.


I couldn't agree more. There are a couple things you can do to alleviate some of these problems, such as:

#4 - Cut/split the locking nut on the cable end and once you have pushed the end through a smaller hole in the hull, use a soldering iron to "weld" the nut back together. I did this rather than bore a 1-inch hole in my hull.

#5 - Mount the transducer outside the hull. It becomes much more sensitive then.

But, all the other points I can only agree with. Because there is no auto-depth feature, you only use whatever portion of the screen is above the drawn bottom. If you set it to display 40 feet, and you have a 20 foot bottom, you only use the top half of the screen. This is why everything is so tiny on the display.

The glare is still my biggest headache. Rain or shine, it's like a mirror. I have put an awning completely around the unit and still can't see crap unless I get my nose within about 10 inches of the screen and at the right angle.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:43 pm
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Location: Huskisson, NSW, Australia
Tim, I just got to experience a 5 km ride taking the pa12 from the dealership to my house. a NE wind was prevailing and I had to go across the chop with about a 1 mtr swell. The pa handled very well, I could even stand up and most importantly I didn't feel being sluggish or fatigued in maintaining speed compared to the rev and ob.

I can only imagine the type of swell needed to knock you off it, and besides I found that if you go with the flow of the waves and current its not really a problem. It was a great ride, and was surprised to see just how easy it was to handle with rudder and peddles dis-engaged when coming back in using the paddle. All in all a great machine, one thing I could change if I could would be to have got the sand tyres instead of the heavy duty ones, pulling that thing up 30 meters of sand is quite a work out!!.

Only real dower was that I by mistake armed the bloody life jacket which temporally suffocated me ,lol!.

Ben


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:36 am 
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Location: Huskisson, NSW, Australia
Today I had a good 6 hour ride in the PA12. There was a nasty South westerly and 1.5 swell. It handled like a champion, caught 3 flatheads and the time just seemed to fly by. I can't praise the machine enough. You could go to sleep lying back on that chair.

What I was most impressed by was the stability and the boat like feeling when moving around to change rigs, prepare bait etc and the speed of the thing. Not once did i feel any sort of real fatigue in the legs. The ability to maneuver the thing after getting a hit was a great experience which cant be matched in a motor boat.

I would recommend (and are) the PA12 to anyone I speak to. It doesnt get better than being able to pack in a 6 pack and lunch and everything else and not have to worry about water police, or the issues that can arise with an outboard motor!. All I have to do now is wait to get a fish finder (in reference to other posts on this thread I saw today while waiting in line at the local BCF a man returning his lowrence elite4 , he was telling the manager it is too complicated and couldnt see the entire depth or the fish).

And thank you to Hobie for not going down the all too tempting road (Apple et al) of an american firms price gouging us Aussies because of the strength of our dollar. The relative closeness of the USA and AU RRP is something I am sure many Australians are grateful to Hobie for!.

Cheers, Ben


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:42 am 
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Wow, that's great Ben. Now can you imagine if Hobie came up with a breakthrough that eliminated the weight of the PA without effecting it's main attributes? Wow. A 60 or 70 pound PA would rule the world lol.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:43 am 
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Location: Huskisson, NSW, Australia
Hi Cannashman

It is a great boat but yes the weight is very much an issue (but its a trade off), I think even the terminator would have difficulty moving that thing around on land haha.

I went our again today in the bay for another fish, this time I went past the opening of the heads and into pure ocean. It was all going very well, I have these soft plastics with pheromones that have seemed to hit the mark. I had 3 snappers and wanted to go back in as that would enough for me.

The thing about Jervis bay is it is a pit stop if you like of the sea for hump back whales on their migratory route from Antarctica up to the tropics around North QLD and the south pacific. Normally the mothers take their calfs in for a break between aug-nov on their way south back to antarctica. To my surprise a whale breached about 30 meters from me, now being a bit stupid I slowly got closer to make sure I wasnt seeing things. And suddenly another much larger beast (the mother) breaches and decides to flick my yak up side down.

This was not a fun moment!!, still about 2 miles offshore and every thing everywhere!. I tried to get up on the yack to use my weight to flip it back over....15 mins later and on my 7th fatigued try I got it up. I thought I was ok despite losing my phone, shoes, and rods!!!!!. Yet to my dread the hull was full of water making the boat very unstable and at the mercy of the current. I finally made it back to land and was a very amusing moment for the onlookers to see me try and manipulate the hulf of a thing in a manner to get all the water out!.

One thing I cant understand is how the water got in, I had all hatches sealed when the hump back capsized me, let the hull was full!.

Anyway was quite a drama but nobody can predict to be capsized by a whale!,,,even those classy folk in their adventures and revs would have had the same fate lol!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Wow..what an adventure that was!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:00 pm 
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jervis_bay84 wrote:
Hi Cannashman

It is a great boat but yes the weight is very much an issue (but its a trade off), I think even the terminator would have difficulty moving that thing around on land haha.

I went our again today in the bay for another fish, this time I went past the opening of the heads and into pure ocean. It was all going very well, I have these soft plastics with pheromones that have seemed to hit the mark. I had 3 snappers and wanted to go back in as that would enough for me.

The thing about Jervis bay is it is a pit stop if you like of the sea for hump back whales on their migratory route from Antarctica up to the tropics around North QLD and the south pacific. Normally the mothers take their calfs in for a break between aug-nov on their way south back to antarctica. To my surprise a whale breached about 30 meters from me, now being a bit stupid I slowly got closer to make sure I wasnt seeing things. And suddenly another much larger beast (the mother) breaches and decides to flick my yak up side down.

This was not a fun moment!!, still about 2 miles offshore and every thing everywhere!. I tried to get up on the yack to use my weight to flip it back over....15 mins later and on my 7th fatigued try I got it up. I thought I was ok despite losing my phone, shoes, and rods!!!!!. Yet to my dread the hull was full of water making the boat very unstable and at the mercy of the current. I finally made it back to land and was a very amusing moment for the onlookers to see me try and manipulate the hulf of a thing in a manner to get all the water out!.

One thing I cant understand is how the water got in, I had all hatches sealed when the hump back capsized me, let the hull was full!.

Anyway was quite a drama but nobody can predict to be capsized by a whale!,,,even those classy folk in their adventures and revs would have had the same fate lol!







Holy crap, i would of freaked out.

I was listening to a comedian and he said that he reacts the exact same way regardless if a White shark was about to attack him or if he had a piece of seaweed bump into his foot. Ha ha ha , that cracked me up.

Wow i'm glad it worked out for you, if you panic it only makes things worse, easier said then done though. If i was going offshore i wouldn't mind a small electric motor to pop into the mirage drive well if the drive failed or you couldn't manage to get back .

I have seen some hobie owners actually drill a hole for a small electric motor directly through the middle of the mirage drive cassette plug and keep it under deck.

If they get in trouble they pop out the mirage drive and pop in the cassette plug with the motor attached. Of course batteries not included.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:00 am 
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Location: Huskisson, NSW, Australia
Good outlook Caanshman!.

I will say this:

It was my second full day of ownership of the pa12. Even offshore the thing was awesome, It was simply my mistake to peddle closer to the calf.

But what I will say is the capsizing offshore (i was about 3km's out) is NOT something I would like to experience again!. One becomes very irrational and the distant remote chance of a shark attack become a very here and now drama. I mean, theres nothing around you in every direction and you off the coastal shelf so atleast in the 100's of meters of depth.
Stupidly, I had the life jacket in the front hull at the time......big mistake!!!!. Further more I armed the canister the day before and didnt bother getting a new cannister, so the thing was useless. Apart from the panic that set in, the only issue I had was the shear effort required to flip the pa 12 back over, and I am no light weight and I could only just flip it...I would have been f***ed if the current wasnt blowing back into shore !lol.

Once back on the boat I was at the mercy of the current,,,,,,the hull took on so muc water that I was basically a moving stick. The mirage drive and rudder wouldnt work and it was an Olympic effort just to stay on the thing as I drifted back to shore!.


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