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 Post subject: pa 14 in rough swell?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:06 pm
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Location: so cal
ok went out the other day with a buddy weather was cold and rain in the forcast.we were about a mile or so out water was like a washing machine out there.saw dark clouds heading our way fast looked at my buddy and said we beter head in we started peddleing in and the swell got larger and larger real fast.i wasx peddeling in real hard and road a sweel and my boat instantly turned right i almost rolled it had the rudder pushing hard to the left and leaned to my right i am shure i would have rolled otherwise.i have been out on this boat several times and never felt unstable in any way.this happen two more times on the way in that day.needless to say i kissed the sand when i landed.i wont stick around in snotty weather again.now i need some input on surf landing this beast.has anybody else experiance this.thanks chuck


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Location: Central Florida
Sure sounds like you found some real rough weather. It is important to understand that you are sitting a little bit higher than in most kayaks, even when the seat is in the down position. All boats have a limitation and it looks like you found how far you could take your PA. Play it safe...always check the weather before going out. Be careful... Be safe out there.

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* 2007 Hobie Quest 13
* 2008 Hobie Revolution 13
* 2013 Hobie Pro Angler 14

"FISHING THE INDIAN RIVER & MOSQUITO LAGOON"


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Location: Kissimmee, FL
It also sounds like your rudder was all or partially out of the water while you were up in the swell causing you to lose all or part of your steering ability.

Luck for you that you made it in OK.

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That is why they calling it fishing and not catching.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Was there a wind? I've found that if there's a cross wind, my PA14 will try to turn INTO the wind unless I'm peddling HARD and steering out of it with the rudder. It's like the rudder isn't big enough if the wind is there and in order to get the rudder to grab, I have to have a minimum amount of water flowing over it from the front. If the front is from hard paddling, that's great, but if the 'front' is from the wind, the PA will turn into the wind. I call it 'weather vane' effect. Helicopters have this all the time. You can see a helo turn into the wind, flying sideways as it's moving across the sky. My PA does this same thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Location: so cal
Hobie Angler wrote:
Sure sounds like you found some real rough weather. It is important to understand that you are sitting a little bit higher than in most kayaks, even when the seat is in the down position. All boats have a limitation and it looks like you found how far you could take your PA. Play it safe...always check the weather before going out. Be careful... Be safe out there.

ya i guess i did not think about sitting a bit higher.i did learn the limitations of this boat.i had a malibu xfactor before and it would have handeled the larger swells a bit better but i would not go back the pa is a completely different class of fishing machine.besides i have no buisness out in that type of weather in a little plastic boat :oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:06 am
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Location: Amelia Island, FL
Let's face it. The PA's have a Big A$$. Anytime a big swell or surf hits the back of the PA it will turn your kayak without your asking.

Glad to hear you made it back safely :!: :!:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:16 pm
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Location: vero beach, fl
something i think most people forget, or have no idea about--the mirage drive when fully extended acts like a keel, and will allow the boat to 'spin' with the center of the boat being the pivot point.
this is one reason for the difficulty in coming back to shore in the surf in a mirage drive boat.
to help with this seeming 'tail spin', or heavy butt affect, make sure in a following sea, when you are being pushed, push a pedal all the way forward to ensure the mirage drive is not acting as a keel.

i actually use this affect during drifts. you can fold the mirage drive up and the boat will track with the rudder. push the mirage drive to a fully extended position and the boat will take a different attitude--pointing either port or stbd. with this technique, i can drift up wind, in a skulling type procedure, while only moving the mirage drive up and down every few seconds.

cheers.
drew

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Location: Amelia Island, FL
uno mas wrote:
something i think most people forget, or have no idea about--the mirage drive when fully extended acts like a keel, and will allow the boat to 'spin' with the center of the boat being the pivot point.
this is one reason for the difficulty in coming back to shore in the surf in a mirage drive boat.
to help with this seeming 'tail spin', or heavy butt affect, make sure in a following sea, when you are being pushed, push a pedal all the way forward to ensure the mirage drive is not acting as a keel.

i actually use this affect during drifts. you can fold the mirage drive up and the boat will track with the rudder. push the mirage drive to a fully extended position and the boat will take a different attitude--pointing either port or stbd. with this technique, i can drift up wind, in a skulling type procedure, while only moving the mirage drive up and down every few seconds.

cheers.
drew



Excellent points Drew!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:48 am 
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I have used my PA in some rough water before, and it has done everything as mentioned before. It can be a handful when in rough seas and heavy winds, but learning how to handle the kayak can be very useful. I have always found that it is easier to lean against the side it wants to roll and to work the rudder quickly to help prevent myself from rolling. I fish a lot of tournaments and i have gone out with my PA and just practiced turning and using my PA in heavy seas without any gear on board, just in case I need to use that down the road. That practice has definitely helped me when I got myself into some sticky situations, and i have stayed dry, while my friends who didn't practice rolled.

Coby Pawlowski

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:55 am 
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I bought a PA14 in September, and have launched it from the surf quite a few times. I had no problems getting out through the breakers even in 4' to 5' seas. Getting in was an issue. Rolled the kayak a couple of times and realized that landing in a pretty good swell was not easy. I noticed that as long as I kept my bow pointed towards the incoming swell, I was totally in control. Waves coming up from behind were the ones that pushed my PA in a direction I wasn't planning on. Big waves would pick up the stern and the bow would dive down until it hit the sand. I was tossed over easily. Even smaller waves that I thought were pretty innocent could push the stern out of my control when they approached from behind while landing in the surf zone. Try landing your PA in reverse. I remove the mirage drive and pull up the rudder as soon as I reach the outer edge of the breaking waves. I use my paddle to point the boat out towards the ocean and paddle backwards. I slowly back up towards the beach and let the incoming swells push me closer and closer to the sand. Keep your bow perpendicular to the waves with your paddle, and let the waves do the work. I never felt out of control, and was able to keep the boat aimed towards the swells easily. As soon as the stern makes contact with the beach, I jump out and pull the beast up onto the sand with the rear handle. Works really well. Lets me fish in conditions that I would not have fished before because I knew I would turtle as soon as I tried to land. I'm a total newbie to kayaking, so experienced guys may be able to land the PA the normal way in 3' or 4' swells. I never once felt like I was going to get rolled landing in reverse. Give it a shot.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:31 pm 
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QuigleyJay;

Well said. This I have heard and told about in other forums. One even said turning the mirage drive around backwards for a little while before reaching the beach.

I will need to excersize this drill as well when the N.W. pacific settles down. our average seas now our 10'-40'.

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"The craft is a foot bigger at port and shrinks a foot at sea."

BentRodyakker
PA14
Rockaway Beach
Oregon


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:36 pm 
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As mentioned a couple times above...the more experience you have with your PA the better off you'll be when things get rough! I would also advise taking your PA out and flipping it over....and figuring out how to turn it right-side-up. It isn't near as easy as you might think! In fact, I could barely turn mine back over until I added short sections of rope. I used the rope to toss over my over-turned PA to use for leverage.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:06 am 
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Does anyone take the mirage drive out of the well and use their paddle to beat the surf. The last rough part of the landing? Just wondering. I have no experience with the surf so this is only a question wanting to know more. Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:02 am 
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Location: Kissimmee, FL
JIMS,

I have been concerned that I too would have difficulty righting an overturned PA, as well as boarding it from deeper water, so I purchased a Kayak Self Rescue Ladder I found on eBay. I could have made one myself but this one was cheap enough. I have not tried it yet but if I am in the water I am sure I would be glad I had it. I keep it attached to the right front leg of the vantage seat and I keep it coiled under the seat. I keep that side of the mounting boards free of obstructions so I could enter the boat without interference from things in my way. I fish mostly in fresh water in Central Florida in relatively shallow water so I hope I never have the need for this item but I want to be prepared.

Here is a link to eBay where I purchased it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Regular-size-SO ... 4d07d9429f

Thinwater Skinner,

I have no experience in the surf but removing the mirage dive to beach your PA makes sense to me. One word of advice, in case you had not thought of this before, is to have the mirage drive attached to a safety cable so you do not lose it should you roll the PA.

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That is why they calling it fishing and not catching.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:21 am 
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Thanks Lunker1

Could you tell us the rope length pipe size and so on, so maybe guys that can't spend the 20.00 for this can make one. I would appreciate it. It does seem like it would be easy to build.

Thanks again for sharing this.

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"The craft is a foot bigger at port and shrinks a foot at sea."

BentRodyakker
PA14
Rockaway Beach
Oregon


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