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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:14 am 
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That' a really slick system you have going there Paul (DogsLife). Thanks for posting the pictures. I imagine it was not easy measuring and fitting the pieces to make the bulkhead behind the mast.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:12 am 
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Jim,

I made the bulkhead out of 3" kayak foam block. First I scribed a template out of cardboard. Had to make this bulkhead out of three sections o get it behind the mast. I cut the foam blocks slightly oversize and used a belt sander to shape to the hull. You want the blocks to fit in snug, but not too snug to distort the hull. On the AI the rudder raise/lower turning blocks sit around the same area and I had to notch the top of the blocks. Whole thing is set in plenty of GOOP. The seal is 100% water and air tight. Once I installed the bulkhead it was easy to determine where my leaks were coming from. That is another story...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:29 am 
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I am starting to realize that this leaking front hatch problem is one of the most talked about issues regarding Hobie Kayaks. (especially among the Hobie bashers on other forums).

I think recently (in the last year) Hobie has worked diligently to try an improve the front hatch seal system on all of their Rotomolded boats including the AI/TI. I suspect that most of the remaining leaking hatch complaints are from people with the older seal designs (the old super glued tubing onto a U shaped rail (LOL, kind of a black eye, designwise)). I am also thinking the leaking problem mostly shows up on AI/TI boats because people tend to take them into heavier conditions (because they can).

I for one am very happy with the hatch seal on my 2012 TI, the hull is very dry (almost no water leakage, even in rough conditions). This is my 3rd TI now, and by leaps and bounds the best (I've owned 8 Hobie Kayaks now). Hobie listens to our problems, and always fixes them ( I really admire that).
I am suggesting that anyone with the older style seals before trying anything else upgrade to the new style seals. The seals are available I'm sure directly from your Hobie dealer, and for those not close to a dealer, the gasket material can be purchased mail order from Austin Kayak here ( http://www.austinkayak.com/products/155 ... -Foot.html), and I'm sure from other mail order places, that sell Hobie stuff as well.
The material is about $3.00 per foot, and you will need 6 or 7 ft to replace the old seals (inside and outside). You only need a pair of scissers, and 10 minutes of your time. And if you want a little extra protection add the 1/4" dia soft vinyl tubing trick that I outlined earlier (about 3 ft @ .30 cents per ft at Home Depot). When done your setup should look like my pictures earlier in this thread.

For those who don't feel comfortable doing the work, simply take your kayak to your Hobie dealer, they are all very friendly and capable and most if not all will be happy to do the changeover for you (Hobies dealer knowledge and support is un-equaled).
I love my Hobies, and once solved, this will be one less thing for the Hobie bashers to cling onto ( I hate those guys LOL)

Hope this helps.
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:34 pm 
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I hate the haters too, Bob. :wink:

Unless you have the very latest AI hull, you're stuck with using the side-glued seal on the hatch opening. Hobie made the change at some point, to the style with the vertical lip on the hull, I'm not sure when.

If I'm not mistaken, that is the same vertical hull seal found in the TI.

So I only have the option of adding the improved seal to the top hatch. That's not the one that concerns me most, but it will help.

Did you water or air test the softtubing fix yet?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:47 pm 
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I've gotten over the Hobie haters--doesn't seem to be nearly as many of them on the one S FL fishing forum I follow. I think they were very impressed by the AI's performances in last year's WaterTribe Everglades Challenge.

NOHUHU, I have a convert to my DIY seal. He reports "The seal and hatch fit is amazing.... It feels more durable than I anticipated too." Currently he is on a 2 week test of the seal and will report on it accordingly.

I mention this because I think the DIY seal will work fine on your older Hobie side-glued seal--all you really need is the flange portion of the seal in order to have something to attach the adhesive edge of the split pipe insulation. Yes, you will have to remove the glued tube from the Hobie seal to expose the flange--but, the Hobie seal is not working anyway, so what! Alternatively, just leave the glued tube on and attach the split pipe insulation adhesive to the tube. The other half side adhesive would attach to the flange on the inside of the opening.

If you would pull the old Hobie tube, you might slip it inside the split pipe insulation to give it a little more body for your application.

Now, this DIY seal won't have quite the sealing properties it does on the newer boats with the vertical lip. Still, it is such a good seal, I think it will work on older boats. My wife has a 2009 AI & it has the older lip. I haven't tested the new DIY seal on her boat, because she claims her boat is dry--of course, she weighs 70# less that I do, so her boat has not really been put to the test. Here are the directions if you want to take the plunge: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=46308&start=0

This is a picture of the seal on Day 4 of my 6-day camping trip.
Image

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Much Mahalo Keith. I'm starting to warm up to your oversized insulation seal.

Just not sure what to call it yet. The "MegaMouth?" The "Angilina Jolie?" The "ROID?" :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Same as i'm sick of the water in my yak. Looks like less hassle than the oogoo option and less of a head ache.

Thanks for the update


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:13 am 
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"DIY ROIDS hatch seal" Or just "ROIDS SEAL." That is a good descriptor.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:49 am 
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Put my 2012 TI front hatch seal to a real test today. Seven hours of sailing in 20+ knots in a nasty short chop. I reckon the front cockpit got filled a number of times, and the bow repeatedly submarined (even submerging the front crossmember on several occasions). With the sail furled to the first batten, I saw 7.2 knots to windward many times, and I got drenched (with some spray going clean over my head, even with a skipper seat..

Afterwards, I emptied out a couple of pints, which is more than I have ever seen before. I think I better get that 1/4 inch tubing and see if I can reduce the volume ore.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:58 am 
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Sounds like a good test, Tony.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:15 am 
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For a TI I think the tubing idea just might work. On a AI the gasket slips on horiznantly on to a bent in the hull flange. There is no place for the tubing to catch on to prevent slipping off. Any ideas...

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DogsLife
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http://dogslifeadventures.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:25 am 
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The hatch seal on the hull of my AI is different than the vertical one on TI's that Bob uses. The 1/4" seal I installed just didn't feel right. So I decided to invest $5.25 and make a seal like Keith made.

I was initially reluctant to use that material because of past experiences and how it can tear easy if you're not careful. The pipe insulation was used in a life size Lost in Space Robot I made. http://www.floridarobot.blogspot.com/2005/11/sweeter-second-time.html If you poke the material with something sharp it will tear. But it's actually not too bad and how often do we go in our front hatches anyways.

So I installed Keith's seal and was blown away by the quality. The hatch fits wonderful and it feels really good. I used goop to glue the two ends together and painters tape to hold it while drying. Instead of removing the painters tape, I left it and it shouldn't be a problem.
Image

As Keith detailed in his post on this seal, I waited until the goop was dry to reach in and carefully peel off the insulation adhesive tape. The excess of the pipe insulation is on the inside of the hatch.

Thanks Keith and everyone who contributed to these solutions.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:15 am 
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Ok it's official Kieths seal solution is officially called the "Roid Hatch seal" I love that name, or for sailers who have problems with H's and S's that would be "Roid Ratch reel". (I have that damned engish humor curse))
I have never seen an AI up close, so I was assuming the hatch design was similar to my (older)Oasis, (older)Revo, and TI, sorry about that.
I will be at the EC launch this weekend, I will look closely at someones AI hatch.
Just a thought would it be possible to take some contact spray glue (like 3m 90 spray, and cover the tubing with lycra fabric (swim suit material), prior to bending it. It would give the skin some extra strength. You would of course glue and roll the skin on before starting. You might also be able to use rip stop nylon, but might have trouble bending/stretching it around the corners. actually heavy duty shrink wrap film might work well also. Just some thoughts. A thick coat of that spray on rubber you see advertised on TV might also work, but not as well as cloth (IMO). If you look at some of those pool toys like boogy boards, they are foam core covered with fabric, and are suprisingly durable.
Just trying to help
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:44 am 
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Chekika wrote:
"ROIDS SEAL." That is a good descriptor.

Keith
Aha- I think you've put your finger on it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:59 am 
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Fusioneng--I was thinking the same thing, even looked up a bunch of mesh fabrics on Amazon. Your idea of using a 3M 90 contact spray is great!

When my first Roids seal becomes tattered enough to replace that is how I'll build the new one.

Easy repair kit: left over pipe insulation plus a tube/bottle of Superglue. Put it in a baggie and carry it along on trips.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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