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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:35 am 
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I got a few questions on the installation of the spin pole and some of the parts. I got the diagram off Hobie France ( pg 30-32 ) which give some details and the class rules ( append B ) but they are not complete or detail enough. I just want to make sure this is rigged right and too make sure we have all the right parts in the kit.

1) The spin pole wires that attach to the bow say they attach to the bow tang. I've got an pic that shows these attached to another set of bow tangs ( part # 2012000 attached ). I don't have these in the kit so where do the spin pole wires attached or are these missing? I would prefer this with line vs the shackles so this can be tensioned. I understand this should be setup with some pre-bend in the spin pole.

2) I'm not sure where to attach the spin pole connection. This is a SS tube which has a slight bend so I'm presuming it goes on the front part of the mast step just above the existing rivets mounted horizontally? The other location would be below the step on the cross bar.

3) Since the kit now has a single tang at the top. It looks like the kit still has the tang and the old turning block attachment that mounts above the tang. I should have a twist shackle or a swivel block so the spin halyard will rotate for side to side. I think the twist shackle would be preferred since the swivel block can twist around itself. ??

4) 3m Tape. What is this used for? I'm assuming its to wrap around the spin pole to keep the bridle from wearing on the spin pole?

5) Snuffer ring. Is this mounted parallel to the boat or angled toward the bridle? I'm going to sail without snuffer first.

Hobie should do a better job with the installation instruction on this kit!

TW

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:09 am 
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Did you get this page? No doubt Hobie Cat France has limited instructions for this kit.

http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/20999020.pdf

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:50 am 
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Matt,

This diagram came with the spin kit. You have 3 diagrams on your web site on the spin kit but they're all dated and not current to what is currently being supplied. Hobie France is actually better and has the parts listed. I can figure out the conversions in the measurements. As I mentioned, some of the parts seem to be part of the old kit.

http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/trumpetmanual.pdf
http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/40998010.pdf

Notice the second diagram talks about item 2 using a lower gudgeon. Again, this is not the part now included which is a single tube with two rivets. I'm sure Maybe we can work to gether and get all this updated.

BTW, Hobie France is much more detailed and current.

TW

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:45 am 
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dtw8689 wrote:
BTW, Hobie France is much more detailed and current.


Except that they didn't provide those with your kit? We can update our site if I can find the instructions you are refering to on their site. I have had no luck so far finding what you refer to. Their H16 assembly manual has one image of the snuffer kit.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:52 am 
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1) attach the wires to the existing bow tangs

2) attach to the mast step above the bottom set of rivits

3) use swivel block

4) use the tape anywhere you think the spinnaker may get caught on, shackles, pins, screws, sharp edges, etc.

5) mount parallel to the boat

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:58 pm 
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I didn't get the kit but I did set up a spi on my boat using information I've gotten off the Internet and from boats at the beach that had spinnakers.

1.) First, I found a lot of the info from the Hobie PDF files to be inaccurate. They recommend a spi pole length of 9' 2" but all the users (from Europe & U.S.) recommend 10' 7".

2.) For your info DTW8689, all recommend a lower gudgeon as the spi ploe anchor mounted on the front mast step. However, I didn't follow that recommendation. I placed the lower set of holes just off the mast step onto the front crossbar. It seemed to provide a better angle that way.

3.) The spinnaker tang should be mounted 54" (hole to hole) above the shroud tang.
Use rivet sleeves (and silicone) when riveting your spinnaker tang to minimize water leakage when capsized. Also, make sure the tang is centered. You can use the measurement from the track to the shroud tang to get the correct measurement.

4.) GThomas was accurate when recommending the swivel block. Your halyard will be going up the mast then forward to the spi head. Whether up or down, it won't make a difference.

5.) Don't know what the kit calls for but I use an extra set of bow tangs. They will require a longer bolt but they seems to provide a lot less stress at that juncture.

6.) The diagram also shows the halyard on the left side of the mast (I hope that's for illustration purposes) but it really goes on the right side.

After all is said, do not substitute my judgement for your own. Take your time. Measure twice, cut once.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:44 am 
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Anyway to get photos? Large ones? If I can learn how to install mine... I will make instructions and use photos and will document my install. But hard to document it if you don,t know what you're doing .

I'm a pro photographer so photos are easy. I also host a web server so putting it online to share is easy as well.

I keep looking At all the hardware and I can see why the price is what isn't is.... Lots of stuff! But it's mind blowing as to what goes where.

Help??!!? Please. Weather should break here around the end of march, so I can get my boat out and start the install.

I also bought new sails... So just dropped over 4k in upgrades and parts, down hall, new handles etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:20 am 
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Spent most of the day yesterday looking at photos and bits of instructions online. I think I am getting it, despite lots of conflicting instructions. Here are some questions.

1. How does the line attach to the spin sail so that it can be sucked into the bag? I can't find any thing other than the drawing that shows it in and out of some sail holes. Is it the a continuous line to the lanyard? Or does it connect a end to a point on the sail? I see a couple grommited holes in my spin, and a little tiny rope, pig tail with lots of sail reinforcement at this point. Attach here? Just tie it?

2. I'm seeing lots of install conflicts with the spring pully block placements. One had them on the aft corner castings of the frame!? Line in the way of crew?
Others have them near the shrouds on the fore side rails. Other installs have them outward on the front tramp frame rail. I read somewhere that I should attach these to the lowest point on my shroud connectors... Off the tramp frame? That seems easiest... No drilling or riveting. So which? And why?

3. The spin pole... I see it connects to front center of the tramp frame... Some say drill and install on mast pocket base? Seems hard to impossible. I see the pole runs forward and rests under the bridal. It has two wires that go down to the hull tips. That will pull down... But what keeps the pole up? All I could find is something showed... I think a length if spectra cord tied? Around it at the bridle/forestay connection point???

4. I keep reading about prebend of the pole... Makes sense to counter the upward pull of the spinkr sail. But how is this bent? Like. Huh?

5. When done sailing for the day? What is the easiest... Offical way to remove the spin il to take with... So it doesn't mold and mildew in the bag? Take the whole pole and bag in? Seems like a lot of work. We'd have to disconnect three sail corners? And the line that snuffs the sail in the bag? And undo the bridle points? And pull the pin for the aft end of the pole? Like come on there. Has to be a easy way? Leave the pole and take just the sail?

6. Instructions show a hook and loop high on the mast... It also shows a tang a bit lower. Why both? Or is there two options? One or the other? Photos seems to show me that only the mast tang is used on the top of the mast. ??? Makes sense to me, instructions are really confusing because of this.... I'm thinking they are h16 vs getaway options... Both shown?

7. Make hole in 550.00 tramp... hmmm. No! I am not comfortable with that... Who wants that erect pully eye loop sticking up on the tramp? Why not just lead the snuffer line through the center gap in the tramp? One photo I found confirmed this idea.


I have at least learned there is no exact. One way. That you can tweak things per personal taste. I think the thing most confusing to me is how to run and attach the snuffing line on the sail. Release the lanyard from the cleat.... Mounted 12" right of mast... Then haul in snuffer line to suck the spin back into the bag. So how is this attached to the sail? Baffling me.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Not that I am an expert...you need Rich or SRM or someone like that....

Here goes:

The best thing is if you can find any F18 sailors in your area....
visit them, and ask if they can 'test' their spin hoist/retrieve on dry land...
take your digital camera with you (for future reference)
'cos you won't remember all the little details.

When you see how simple it is, it will blow you away.

The Hoist raises the spin,
the Retrieve pulls it back into the sleeve.
So the Hoist attaches to the Head of the sail, up to the top pulley, down to the lower fairlead and cleat.
The continuation of this same line (typical with many such lines on beach cats),
goes from stern towards the bow into the back of the sleeve,
and then out of the mouth of the snuffer back up to the spin,
attaching to the two or three tie down points (grommet holes) on the sail, up to the head. Tensioning this set up is tricky.

Pull one end, spin goes up.
Uncleat and pull the other, spin gets snuffed back into the sleeve.

Buy a couple of spray cans of McLube sail coating, you will use up a few each season,
Allows for smooth hoisting/retrieval.

Tape everything anywhere near the spin, the spin WILL tear.
We use electrical tape, not duct tape.

H18 it is suggested we attach the spin blocks to the 10 hole shroud adjuster plates.
That should work well for H16's as well.

You correctly understand why the spin pole should have PRE-BEND when you mount it.
Done by tensioning the spectra at the front of the pole.
There should be a gudgeon that you rivet to the front of the front cross bar,
and spectra to attach up front.

Can you leave the spin in the bag from a security perspective?
All our guys do at our sailing club, which has a secured area for dingy's.

Hook and loop on mast....look at an F18 boat, like the Tiger....you will see that the top
one carries the downward force and must be kept/maintained in a vertical plane...
which is why there is a bail or a loop a couple of inches (8") lower down,
which keeps the tension vertical. With the spin working hard, the tension would otherwise
move forward, and break off the comptip. Got it?

I am emailing you off line with some attachments - hope they help?

there is also a terrific video that Jeremy of Surf City Catamarans made..
google for it...plus someone posted something under H18 section of the Forum.

I will have the same challenge as you when I mount my new Tiger spin onto my SX18.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Attachments helped! Thanks to you and Bob P.

I get the sail line that pulled it in the bag. I understood that, but not attaching the line to the sail.

You explained, I do need tang and loop.... I don't have comp tip though. Attachment bob sent me doesn't have loop, only tang. Should I add a loop above the tang? Seems to me it would only lower, or make a down forced until it runs outward from the tang, so the loop only add down instead of out tension for the top 8. Inches?

I have the concepts pretty well in my head now. Bob had sent me that detailed getaway install. Helped a lot. But gave distances for tang on mast for the getaway, I read different numbers elsewhere... So still some things not known for sure yet. But I get it over all. Also the spin set PDF you sent, I had seen and it's... Extra confusing. As it shows the spin sheet blocks on the aft cross bar! Huh. On page 4 of 4.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Still unsure of mast install..., tang and loop? Both needed? this makes the tension go down rather than out from the tang... so loop is below tang to pull downward? and spin can only be hoisted as high as the loop... not up to the tang?

If correct, what height on mast for each, and I don't have comp tip.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:38 am 
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mmiller wrote:
Did you get this page? No doubt Hobie Cat France has limited instructions for this kit.

http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/20999020.pdf


Page 2 of the pdf has everything you are asking about.

Unless you have an all aluminum mast... Do not use the hoop and eye strap. Install a Hobie 14 mast tang at the measurement noted... 4.5' above the shroud tang.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:55 am 
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Quote:
Unless you have an all aluminum mast... Do not use the hoop and eye strap.


I don't have COMPTIP. So I imagine that isn't what I should do. That means I use that LOOP? (which I would add a pulley to?) (not shown) EASY enough, but there was more in teh original drawing from France that implied a thin string around the mast for something? (to keep a downward tension on the block and loop?

why is the aluminum mast different? I would suspect the all aluminium would be stronger than the comp tip? any of attaching the tang below the comptip - why would it matter if the mast has comptip or is all alum? (both would keep mounting off the comptip material).

I would prefer to use only mast tang. (seems cleaner) But someone from here emailed me saying I need the hoop to direct the tension from the tang to tension downward instead of outward... the tension from the spin will be primarily forward (outward). I read that the downward tension desired is induced by having the halyard leave the tang and go down through a loop before leading to head of spin. (thus pulling tension down on tang rather than out). ???

Also everything I read that tells where to mount tang says distance from tang to tang "holes" this page 2 drawing doesn't show that. Instead shows spin tang to be measured 1375 from primary tang hole to top of spin tang.

Maybe I'm being too accurate in that it maybe isn't that critical? though specs don't say "around 1400mm" they say 1375mm (meaning accuracy counts).

I've popped a few of those hobie mast rivets in my masts already and I don't look forward to doing them for the new tang then having to MOVE them and do it again. OUCH!

what really frustrates me is - It would take someone at Hobie USA less than one hour to draw proper instructions or shoot a few photos and post in a pdf file on their site or on this forum.

This product has been available for YEARS or not decades and we're still looking at instructions that look like they were done for the first prototype!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:09 am 
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So - since I don't have comptip - I don't use page2. And page one? isn't working for me.

Looks like a loop on the mast high up - there is a line (appears tied to it? surely doesn't look like it will hold anything let alone a spin.) This sting is hanging down about 15 inches that looks like it has a block on the end of it. (ok, main halyard goes through that block) but then there is another line (looks like a string) looped around that block to retain it (keep it back toward the mast?) So like why not just put the loop on the mast 15" lower and forget that retaining string? I see no logic at all to the original configuration. (what am I missing?)

NO ZOOM or DETAIL of what all that is?

The rest "I totally get" but this height would be rather critical to keep the spin luff taught as needed.

thinking... it would seem (logically) to me that the loop isn't that strong (not like a tang) and the loop would be stronger (hold better) if the tension on that loop is DOWN and not out. This would explain why they show the block retained 15" lower than loop.

HOWEVER if I have the tang (came with the kit) why not just use the tang even on an aluminum mast? the tang would be much stronger than the loop, and would eliminate the need for the downward tension?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:36 am 
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I'm obviously lacking knowledge of loads or stress's or some such...
because why would someone go through all this (MESS) ratehr than just attaching the block to the tang?

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