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 Post subject: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Now that I have moved to the aft cockpit I have less stuff to grab should I go over. Granted any time I am at high speed I have a firm grip on the main-sheet. But, should something go wrong and you leave the boat, what then? Will it sail off into the sunset without you? Anyone have actual experience with this? I would be happy to test the situation if I had a support/chase boat, just in case. Any IA or TI in the bay area? Hopefully someone else has experienced this and keep me dry.

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Location: High Point, NC
I removed the forward cam cleat and simply hold main sheet in my hand. I do have a standard cleat next to seats, but unless I have the sheet tied off, the sail will simply de-power if I leave the boat. Unless, of course, the sheet were to get tangled on something and "self-cleat."


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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
I removed the forward cam cleat and simply hold main sheet in my hand. I do have a standard cleat next to seats, but unless I have the sheet tied off, the sail will simply de-power if I leave the boat. Unless, of course, the sheet were to get tangled on something and "self-cleat."


And thanks to a Mr. Murphy the the odds are still there for just such a thing to happen. Damn you Mr. Murphy where ever you are!:evil:

I have not yet sail with the sheet uncleated and in hand for any length of time. I have never felt like I was too late if I need to de-power the boat from a cleated sheet. Usually, if I feel the need to manage the line un-cleated for any length of time it means time to furl away some sail.

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:05 pm
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Location: New Hampshire
You might want to look at http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=46773. PDF, appropriate clothing, and a radio/cell phone are your best defenses. Accept that it can happen, and plan around it.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe


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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
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Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
NOHUHU once suggested tying the mainsheet to the furling line (as we all do anyway), then attaching the loop you have made to your PFD with a carabiner. I tried his idea and it works great. Not only are you tethered to your boat, but it keeps the lines from dragging in the water and always at hand, which is particularly useful if you are hiking out. Ironically, I have a feeling that NOHUHU may not have adopted his idea. Not sure if it would work the same in a TI as in an AI.

Image

I must say I sail with the mainsheet uncleated much of the time. I find I need to adjust the trim of the sail almost continually for best performance.

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:45 pm 
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Location: Puget Sound, Washington USA
Quote:
Will it sail off into the sunset without you? Anyone have actual experience with this?



No experience in a sail boat. But I can attest to the fact that most any wind will move a kayak away from me faster than I can swim. It does not need a sail to sail off without you. And just a mast with a furled sail will add considerably to the area catching the wind. In a kayak I tethered the paddle and learned the mantra: Don't let go of the paddle!

I keep pondering this problem for the TI where I don't hold a paddle, and it seems to me that some kind of tether is a good idea. First I have to get a life vest with a D ring.

I also keep pondering the weather helm and spring loaded rudder solution suggested here. I have trouble picturing the net effect of wind and current and turning boat bringing the boat exactly back to where I'm swimming -- or that I could figure out where to swim quickly enough to get to the right spot -- especially if I came up from a forced dive gasping for air.

Yep, the tether still sounds best to me.


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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
You don't need a special life jacket. Just buy a carabiner. On my next offshore trip, I am going to put the mainsheet/furling line loop through the carabiner, so (a) I can easily find it rather than rooting around on the floor, and (b) it would act as a tether for me should I fall overboard.

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
Get a largish one, so the knot joining the lines can pass through easily and so that you can easily release the lines if you get tangled when in the water.

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Sorry Chris, I missed your earlier post mentioning the carabiner

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:57 am 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
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Location: Kailua 96734
chrisj wrote:
NOHUHU once suggested tying the mainsheet to the furling line (as we all do anyway), then attaching the loop you have made to your PFD with a carabiner. I tried his idea and it works great. -- Ironically, I have a feeling that NOHUHU may not have adopted his idea.

Image

I must say I sail with the mainsheet uncleated much of the time. I find I need to adjust the trim of the sail almost continually for best performance.
Busted! :oops: I still like the idea, but admit I've not found a big caribiner to do it right.

But I do keep a death grip on the sheet at all times, especially out on the Hakas. I trust and use the mainsheet cleat. A TI sail can quickly fill and the sheet may exert loads of well over a hundred pounds of pressure. Using the cleat helps keep my shoulder in its socket and my arse on the benches. :lol:

Sharris, I usually crew and pilot the TI from the front seat (Hakas actually) so I don't experience that open cockpit fear factor, but in your case, using a simple surfers or SUP leash will give you all the confidence you need.

If you are wondering about how your boat will react without you, just try it. :shock:

I mean, give yourself some room, get on a tack and just release the rudder, watch what she does. Release the sheet, watch again. Release the furling line, etc. Put her in irons, too, let her backwind,.. let the boat do what it naturally wants for as long as you can, then recover. You'll learn very quickly, and realize you don't have to be in tight control of the boat at every moment.

Then move on the harder stuff, reading the sail, heaving to, using a paddle to steer (simulate broken rudder) and landing that way. Replacing a rudder pin on the water. Surfing,.. capsizing. 8)

A TI is a great boat to learn on with the help of an experienced old dog, like KayakingBob, for example. It's harder trying to yell advice to each other from a couple. PLUS there's the collisions,.. :roll:

As far as what happens when someone is "thrown" from the TI - The boat will almost always turn and slow (for awhile), probably to windward, so anticipate this and it may help you get back on.

FWIW, I've dragged people in the water in decent wind, and the AI/TI slowed dramatically to a crawl, and turned in the direction of the drag. If it's a downwind jibe, (or turns into one), that may be the only tricky recovery.

If you find yourself "prematurely ejected" from the cockpit, my best advice is to swim to the stern and grab the rudder. Steer the boat into the wind. Everything after that will become a lot easier.

Hell, you could probably slowly sail it all the way back to shore that way!


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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:02 am
Posts: 325
Location: Cape Coral, FL
chrisj wrote:
NOHUHU once suggested tying the mainsheet to the furling line (as we all do anyway), then attaching the loop you have made to your PFD with a carabiner. I tried his idea and it works great. Not only are you tethered to your boat, but it keeps the lines from dragging in the water and always at hand, which is particularly useful if you are hiking out. Ironically, I have a feeling that NOHUHU may not have adopted his idea. Not sure if it would work the same in a TI as in an AI.

Image

I must say I sail with the mainsheet uncleated much of the time. I find I need to adjust the trim of the sail almost continually for best performance.


Chrisj,

That little D ring is designed for holding about five pounds of gear, you're giving yourself a false sense of security. Attach the carabiner to the thicker and stronger 1.5 inch webbing if you truly want to tether yourself.

When i sail solo, I use an actual offshore sailing harness, attached to a tether with quick release at one end, and by carabiner to a lifeline run the length of the boat. The ti is a horrible sailor without a captain, rounding up immediately if there is a weight change or lack of constant rudder input, don't worry about depowering the sail, it will happen automatically.

Cheers,

J

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
NOHUHU wrote:
... with the help of an experienced old dog, like KayakingBob, for example.
grrrrr :lol:

Actually, a lot of good advice. You've got to know your boat and it's capabilities and limits, as well as your own. It's surprising what these boats can handle when conditions quickly deteriorate. Be prepared, practice and go have fun!

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
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Location: Kailua 96734
Good point about anchoring your biner to a solid point. The quality of your knot matters too. After splashdown, the drag on the line will be light though.

I really like that anchoring to the vest puts the lines within inches of your hands, where you could find them with your eyes closed.

If anything, keeping hold of the shorter furling line would be most helpful. Pulling on that potentially depowers the sail. Pulling on the sheet has the opposite effect.

So tying them together is a good compromise. The kind of tip you get from listening to generous old salts like KBob. If you ever get the chance to jump on a TI with him, grab it!


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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
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Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
kayakman7 wrote:

Chrisj,

That little D ring is designed for holding about five pounds of gear, you're giving yourself a false sense of security. Attach the carabiner to the thicker and stronger 1.5 inch webbing if you truly want to tether yourself.

Sorry guys, that is the photo from my original post on the subject and it is misleading. Following a similar comment from Kayaking Bob, I switched to putting the carabiner around the webbing, as km7 suggests. :oops: :oops: :oops:
What I really like about it is you don't have yet another line in the boat to get tangled. Personally, I think tethering yourself is a no-brainer if you are going to be sitting out on a haka or quarterdeck in anything approaching harsh weather.

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Last edited by chrisj on Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: man overboard?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: South Florida
Murphy's law is, indeed, always applicable, especially to sailing.

I forget the details of this story, but, my friend, Steve Sanders, told me he was off-shore, deep-water fishing, when he stood up in his boat for some reason. He grasped the main line, maybe lost his balance a bit, and a wind gust came up, whipped the sail out and him with it, throwing him off his TI. He was able to grab something and clamber back onto the boat or he might be a statistic.

Keith

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