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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:36 am 
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Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
Hi
Have an Adventure kayak but will exchange it for an Adventure Island. Reason is that I want to do longer trips and can't avoid open sea crossings. So more sailing and less pedalling is the goal.

I have in mind a 300miles trip with biggest open sea crossing 45 miles and one at 25 miles, furthermore one at 30 miles and the last one at 18 miles. My experience is limited to an open sea crossing at 15 miles but that is done in kayak mode with the small sail.

No plans are made yet. This is just an idea. Bad or god?
3 to 4 weeks? Will be very thankfull for feedback! Anyone else on the forum used to big (or is large the right word?) open sea crosssings?

br
thomas


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:43 am 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
I can be done. My dealer Kelly at P&P Kayaks on the Big Island (of Hawaii) and my friend Aloha Dan did it from the Big Island to Maui, and then back again the next day. http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=10417

You should pick the right day with the right conditions that you have experience handling. You should have all your safety gear and know how to use them with practice where possible. Lots of experience with shorter trips in varying conditions. Best to go with another (or others), in separate boats would be best. Good communications with each other. Practice, practice, practice! And extra support would be helpful (at launch and destination, and someone willing to come rescue you on the water if you have major failures.

Lots to think about, and work toward to do it safely. But much fun to have while working towards this goal.
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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:00 am 
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Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
KayakingBob wrote:
It can be done.
THANKS! I was hoping that! But it was a very dramatic post about the Hawai crossing! Very interesting!

KayakingBob wrote:
You should pick the right day with the right conditions that you have experience handling.
Of Course, but 45 miles will take 7 - 10 hours normally and things could happen with weather, gear and my body ending up in several more hours. I am not to keen to travel after dark with lots of traffic of merchant ships.

KayakingBob wrote:
You should have all your safety gear and know how to use them with practice where possible. Lots of experience with shorter trips in varying conditions.
Yes you are absolutly right. And I have no experience about the Island version of the Adventure. How much is it possible to reef the sail? What about the trouble in the Hawai-post of no more reefing line? And how much wind can the AI realy handle? When is it needed to just put something in the water to drift? With forehead or stern against the wind?

KayakingBob wrote:
Best to go with another (or others), in separate boats would be best. Good communications with each other. Practice, practice, practice! And extra support would be helpful (at launch and destination, and someone willing to come rescue you on the water if you have major failures.
Well if it is possible we will be 2 persons. And I figured out myself that it would a better idea to go in 2 AI than in 1 TI. There will be no possibilitys fore extra support if something happens. Just the EMERGENCY button on some safety device not yet purchased. A VHF would certainly be propriate. Worst case, it will be just me alone.

KayakingBob wrote:
Lots to think about, and work toward to do it safely. But much fun to have while working towards this goal.
Absolutly, very fun! I am no dare devil so safety is a big deal. BTW, the problem with pumping out water without getting it back in I have solved, look in this post: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=32772&start=30
"under these conditions these babies leak" Where do they leak? What can I do to prevent this? The bow hatch is big, maybe need some extra securety locking?

Thanks Kayaking Bob!
Still interested in more feedback about AI in open sea.

BR
thomas (will use drysuit in open sea!)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1440
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
There are many excellent sources of good information to improve your chances of success. One of the very best is Josh Holmes' yakass.net. Josh works at a large Hobie dealer, and has worked for Hobie Australia. He has over 10,000kms of open sea Hobie experience!.

To tempt you, here are just a few links to articles at his site
Ideal equipment to carry on your PFD
http://www.yakass.net/articles/safetyna ... appendages
Setting up a manual bilge pump so you don't need an open hatch
http://www.yakass.net/articles/safetyna ... lge-system
Safety grab-box for open water
http://www.yakass.net/articles/safetyna ... open-water
Carrying a GPS-equipped Personal Locator Beacon
http://www.yakass.net/articles/safetyna ... k-equipped

I believe once you have followed these links, you will find yourself learning heaps more by looking at the many other useful articles there.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas
Kal-P-Dal,

Those are some pretty-whopping-big goals you have, buddy! I couldn't help but be reminded of the old Breton fisherman's prayer which states, "O God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small."

From your initial post, you strike me as a fellow who already has a lot of sea-kayaking experience. If that’s so, you’re likely aware of all that entails but I can’t shake the idea that sea kayakers rarely go beyond sight of land. I’m a sea kayaker, and I’ll confess that when I got my TI, I thought that all my problems with regard to making progress over the water would be behind me… just unfurl the sail and go… piece of cake; right? Wrong.

I've had my TI for 2 years now, and just when I start getting smug and thinking I know it well, something happens to humble my arrogance, like failing to travel 2 miles in an upwind direction on a recent outing because the sea lane was too narrow to tack effectively, the shipping traffic was heavier than expected, and I couldn’t pedal/paddle against the wind, waves, & tidal current. After three hours of fighting all the above, I had to abort.

If you’re going to travel beyond sight of land on the open sea, I trust you know ALL of the following VERY well:


** How to read the stars of the night sky, and the sun during the day.
** What the "points of sail" and the "90° no-go-zone" are.
** What various cloud patterns reveal about approaching weather.
** How to plot a "course-made-good" with map, compass, & dividers.
** How the ocean currents ebb and flow in your area of interest.
** The most common direction the wind blows from in your area of interest.
** What WGS84 means.
** How to communicate with other vessels using marine VHF.
** How to correctly mount a radar reflector on your boat.
** What a kayaker’s tow line (with quick-release) is.
** What an EPIRB is and where to carry it.
** Every single nut, bolt, screw, line, bearing, plug, fitting, brace, clip, block, pin, ring, and gadget is on your boat.
** How to use every tool to fix or adjust the above, (and you have those tools on board).
** How much fresh water you need for drinking each day, AND washing saltwater off yourself at the end of the day.
** The difference between clothing used while on the water versus clothing used in camp. (Camp clothes should be considered sacrosanct.)
** What positive buoyancy is.


Okay, okay, enough. The list goes on and on. I’m not trying to discourage you, it’s just that I spent 4 years in a U.S. Navy Search and Rescue helicopter squadron, and I was an ambulance driver/EMT for 15 years.

You have ambitious goals and I say go for it, but only with ALL of the necessary keys: Training, Practice, Real-world experience, and Proper equipment. Only then will you be ready. Anything short of that, and you are asking to die, as the sea is absolutely unforgiving.

Okay, if you’re still reading, then good. Here’s your reward. Check the following link. It’s WAY COOL to see what some people are doing with these AI's and TI's!

http://transparentseavoyage.com/

Best wishes!

_________________
RC
Houston, TX.
2010 Golden Papaya TI, "Trifurcatus"
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:53 am
Posts: 192
Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
Thanks for your most valuable anwsers!

@tonystott
Very interesting articles, I have much the same way of thinking but certainly not Josh experience. But all his ideas are very easy to adapt to. In fact my own grab bag is already in use, the bilge pump problem has concerned me a lot and I managed to solve it (a little bit differently).
For the solution with an EPIRB or a PLB, I havent chosen one yet.



georeubs wrote:
Kal-P-Dal,

Those are some pretty-whopping-big goals you have, buddy! I couldn't help but be reminded of the old Breton fisherman's prayer which states, "O God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small."

Well this is just an idea at the moment and maybe could (if inputs are OK) develope into a plan.

From your initial post, you strike me as a fellow who already has a lot of sea-kayaking experience.
Correct, I have some kayak experience but have been sailing since childhood.
If that’s so, you’re likely aware of all that entails but I can’t shake the idea that sea kayakers rarely go beyond sight of land.
I’m aware of that!
I’m a sea kayaker, and I’ll confess that when I got my TI, I thought that all my problems with regard to making progress over the water would be behind me… just unfurl the sail and go… piece of cake; right? Wrong.

I've had my TI for 2 years now, and just when I start getting smug and thinking I know it well, something happens to humble my arrogance, like failing to travel 2 miles in an upwind direction on a recent outing because the sea lane was too narrow to tack effectively, the shipping traffic was heavier than expected, and I couldn’t pedal/paddle against the wind, waves, & tidal current. After three hours of fighting all the above, I had to abort.
These kind of experiences is exactly what I am interested of!

If you’re going to travel beyond sight of land on the open sea, I trust you know ALL of the following VERY well:


** How to read the stars of the night sky, and the sun during the day.
No this is one of my weaknesses.
** What the "points of sail" and the "90° no-go-zone" are.
Yes I am clear over this.
** What various cloud patterns reveal about approaching weather.
No this is another of my weaknesses but I will be able to get a god forecast before every crossing.
** How to plot a "course-made-good" with map, compass, & dividers.
I know the concept in theory but have newer practiced it. I will rely on GPS with sea charts loaded. Will have 2 GPS and 1 compass with me.
** How the ocean currents ebb and flow in your area of interest.
I know the these water fair enough. They are not realy dangerous, with exeptions from storms in certain directions.
** The most common direction the wind blows from in your area of interest.
Yes this I know. Rest from forecast.
** What WGS84 means.
Yes I do and I am very familiar to all useful functions in both my GPS.
** How to communicate with other vessels using marine VHF.
No this I have to learn before the trip.
** How to correctly mount a radar reflector on your boat.
A good question, how do you mount a radar reflector on an Adventure Island? Even if I do that, I can't rely on that ships will see me. I think not.
** What a kayaker’s tow line (with quick-release) is.
I know that.
** What an EPIRB is and where to carry it.
I know what it is but leaning towards a PLB.
** Every single nut, bolt, screw, line, bearing, plug, fitting, brace, clip, block, pin, ring, and gadget is on your boat.
Well, I know my Adventure kayak to that grade but have to learn the AI to the same.
** How to use every tool to fix or adjust the above, (and you have those tools on board).
I have lots of tools and know how to use them. And lots of spare parts but not certain that I have right ones yet.
** How much fresh water you need for drinking each day, AND washing saltwater off yourself at the end of the day.
Yes, no problem.
** The difference between clothing used while on the water versus clothing used in camp. (Camp clothes should be considered sacrosanct.)
Yes, no problem.
** What positive buoyancy is.
Yes, no problem.

Did I pass? :wink:


Okay, okay, enough. The list goes on and on. I’m not trying to discourage you, it’s just that I spent 4 years in a U.S. Navy Search and Rescue helicopter squadron, and I was an ambulance driver/EMT for 15 years.

Well, we are all willing to take risks in traffic every day. In fact we are so used to risks in traffic so we don't realy bother. We are well trained and have lots of practice how to deal with traffic. Still, risks in traffic are higher than my paddling trip. It is a risk to be alive. You can die. Safety is big deal and I am no dare devil. All inputs counts!

You have ambitious goals and I say go for it, but only with ALL of the necessary keys: Training, Practice, Real-world experience, and Proper equipment. Only then will you be ready. Anything short of that, and you are asking to die, as the sea is absolutely unforgiving.

Wise said!

Okay, if you’re still reading, then good. Here’s your reward. Check the following link. It’s WAY COOL to see what some people are doing with these AI's and TI's!

http://transparentseavoyage.com/

Best wishes!


Thanks for the link and all inputs!

BR

thomas


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas
Thomas,

Glad to see I didn't frighten you off. I tend to be blunt by nature, not by purpose. :oops: Please forgive my shortcoming, I wasn't trying to quiz you.

After reading your most recent post, I do feel better about your trip, and I say PROCEED with planning. These boats ARE seaworthy. The "Transparentsea" project proved that when they followed a pod of whales for several hundred kilometers across the sea, but they did so as a group. I worry about you wanting to go alone. I'd opt for two or more people, and two or more boats.

It sounds like you've got the know-how and experience to serve as a very good starting base on which to build your skills. If you're like me, you see the extra training and education as part of the challenge... part of the appeal. It adds to the fun. So in the spirit of fun, here's an article about radar reflectors that I found pretty informative.

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2011/07/the_passive_radar_reflector_solution_for_sailboats.html

Also, do a google search for the phrase "corner reflector", and then another phrase, "catch rain poisiton". Both searches will have good illustrations and articles on how radar reflectors work and how to mount them.

Oh yeah, and here's a tip for planning... Once you've got your trip all figured out and it's "perfect," have a friend or family member randomly take away some (half?) of your gear & food (to simulate it being lost overboard) and then ask, "How would your trip be affected? What's your Plan B? Can you still make it to your abort destination?"

Just a few thoughts. That's it for now.

P.S. Sweden ROCKS. I'm only 3rd generation American; my family is originally from Sweden.

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RC
Houston, TX.
2010 Golden Papaya TI, "Trifurcatus"
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:39 am 
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Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
georeubs wrote:
Thomas,

Glad to see I didn't frighten you off. I tend to be blunt by nature, not by purpose. :oops: Please forgive my shortcoming, I wasn't trying to quiz you.
The quiz was fun and useful! You have nothing to forgive.

After reading your most recent post, I do feel better about your trip, and I say PROCEED with planning. These boats ARE seaworthy. The "Transparentsea" project proved that when they followed a pod of whales for several hundred kilometers across the sea, but they did so as a group. I worry about you wanting to go alone. I'd opt for two or more people, and two or more boats.
No I don't want to go alone but I will do it if I don't get company.

It sounds like you've got the know-how and experience to serve as a very good starting base on which to build your skills. If you're like me, you see the extra training and education as part of the challenge... part of the appeal. It adds to the fun. So in the spirit of fun, here's an article about radar reflectors that I found pretty informative.

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2011/07/the_passive_radar_reflector_solution_for_sailboats.html

Also, do a google search for the phrase "corner reflector", and then another phrase, "catch rain poisiton". Both searches will have good illustrations and articles on how radar reflectors work and how to mount them.
I read everything I find on internet but it is realy not encouraging. Expensive (for active radar transponders), depending on how radars are calibrated (with gain and other parameters) if they will se me. If there is anyone at all on the bridge...

Oh yeah, and here's a tip for planning... Once you've got your trip all figured out and it's "perfect," have a friend or family member randomly take away some (half?) of your gear & food (to simulate it being lost overboard) and then ask, "How would your trip be affected? What's your Plan B? Can you still make it to your abort destination?"
Thanks for that one!

Just a few thoughts. That's it for now.

P.S. Sweden ROCKS. I'm only 3rd generation American; my family is originally from Sweden.

Have you been in Sweden? It is a paradise for paddling!

BR
thomas


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas
Haven't been to Sweden. I've only seen it in pictures, movies, and on maps. It looks beautiful.

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Houston, TX.
2010 Golden Papaya TI, "Trifurcatus"
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Posts: 85
Location: Burbank, Ca
My AI is fully dressed. Full electronics. Please do not consider this otherwise.
I did a trip several months ago where the weather turned in a heartbeat and fog set in. No GPS no anything other than wetsuits that were never required.
I now have a Ritchie Magnetic 2"
Lowrance Elite 4 Gold Full charts
SPOT
Standard Horizon 851
6.5mm Mares Semi dry suit
On impact floatation vest over my other

I could not determine any direction once the fog hit. I tried to read the waves but the storm turned them 180, so I was actually going further from safety than to it. So is life in California at times

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Mark AKA: River
2011 AI in Red Hibiscus
Lowrance Elite 4, W Gold card
Garmin GPS 78
Standard Horizon HX 751
2 12V 700ma batteries in Parallel
Solar charging
Ritchie Compass
14 days of electronics easy


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:16 am 
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Location: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
So what happend, did you go ahead?
Still planning and preparing?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:24 am 
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Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
hollgi wrote:
So what happend, did you go ahead?
Still planning and preparing?


Sorry I missed this post!
Due to a very late delivery of my ordered AI there were only time for 1 long trip 2012. That trip was meant to be an essential practice before the very long trip planned to summer 2013. But my AI was leaking bad from front hatch and I had to abort after only 3 days. End of paddling season and holidays is in augusti (holiday) and september/october (paddling). So My AI is now in my garage and I'm working on solutions to make it water proof.

When season starts in may I will check the front hatch first and then I have to practice a lot more. Probably postpone THE LONG TRIP to 2014. Or if my experience from season 2013 tells me that THE LONG TRIP is a bad idea, just abandon the whole idea. I will know a lot more after season 2013.

br thomas


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Location: sarasota,fl
Thomas:
I have been to Sweden several times, my best friend lives there near Gothenburg, and think Sweden would be a fun place to own an AI/TI. I enjoy his stories of a 300-400 mile trip him and his friends took on a 120 ft classic schooner up to the north, he was captain, everything that could go wrong did, but they still had the adventure of a lifetime.

I've seen several youtube posts from Sweden from guys with the AI's and TI's.
If it were me I would get in contact with the dealer near you (maybe Http://www.hobieshop.se) and see if there are other Hobie owners in your area with similar interests, maybe ask them to them start a Hobie Island club branch in your area, and make friends with similar interests.
Start out as a group with smaller adventures, then possibly build up to the big one you have in mind.
The way you discribe your big adventure, it is in my opinion a little too big for a small AI (especially all alone). If you want to read about what it takes to do something like this on an AI go to the Watertribe web site and read up (http://watertribe.org), 104 entrants (8 AI/TI boats) just finished up a 300 mile race down here in Florida, it takes a lot more experience, stamina, and knowledge than I have to undertake something that big. And all this was in Florida (were I live) where the water is warm. I've been in your water a few times, and it is not warm even in July (Actually it's not too bad on the west side because of the gulfstream).
But then again, Viking heritage trumps all the rest of us, we wouldn't even be here if your people hadn't came here in the 10th century (on boats not a whole lot more capable than an AI/TI's). Every cruise ship captain I have ever met has a Scandanavian accent.
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Location: Gippsland Lakes Victoria Australia
Thomas

I have just returned from a boat trip across Bass Strait from Lakes Entrance,Victoria to Hobart, Tasmania. This was on a small wooden boat (13 mtr) and we were away for almost 1 month. I was not the skipper but was elected the electronic gadget guru.

The first thing I learnt is that the difference between a successful trip and a disaster is in the PREPARATION & PLANNING! Unfortunately the skipper had not attended to every little detail and his lifelong dream trip turned into a nightmare that we (the crew) had to share!!
Which kind of leads to the next little homily - BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!
I'll leave it at that..........

I had access to 12v power and therefore was able to use my iPhone5 & iPad (with GPS built in) to run some fantastic apps.
Here is a list I found fantastic and did not cost too much:
Boat Beacon - enables you to see all ships that have AIS & THEY CAN SEE YOU! Actually it does a great deal more than that!
iSailor - excellent marine navigation app!
Navionics - another well known marine nav app that has a number of useful features (tides,currents) but i found isailor more accurate (perfect!) re navigation.
Compass Eye - a professional bearing compass with up to 8 x zoom & fully gimballed.
YachtWeather - was the best weather app that covered my part of the world. I think there may be better apps for your location but it's a starting point.

I preferred to use the iPad for navigation due to the screen size. It may be a bit too large for mounting on an AI. Perhaps the iPad mini may be more suitable.

Of course the big problem is power! I have not yet tried any of this on my AI but intend looking into it. I suspect i would need to use a battery and a solar panel setup - unless there is some way of generating enough power via the pedals?? :roll:

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Mickey
2011 AI Golden Papaya



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:33 pm 
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You should look into the preparation and gear lists that are used in the watertribe races, specifically the Everglades challenge. I just completed the ec2013, and over 289 miles of race, I touched land four times. Expect everything to take longer than it should, the weather to not cooperate, and things that work fine normally to break, tangle, or knot.

Good luck and have fun, I did!

Jesse

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also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
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