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 Post subject: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:52 am 
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Location: Michigan
What did you have to change/modify to rake your mast back on your 79, like that?
It looks really good from your signiture picture. I know a low pro 6:1 block might be part of the process, but what else did you have to do?

And how does it handle compared to when it was'nt raked?

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
I actually don't do anything special with it other than put the d-ring in the highest hole on the adjuster when I raise the jib.

the farthest right hole in this picture is where I attach the jib:
Image

a closer shot of my boat:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Also, my blocks aren't anything special, just 5:1

a cheap way to do it, if moving where you attach the jib doesn't help you, would be to stack a few D-rings at the spot shown in the picture below, although, with more D-rings there, you are more likely to have one break.

Image

I'm not an expert on tuning Hobies, there is probably someone out there who can tell you the right way to do this. I can say, that with the rake and sails how they are now, the boat is well balanced. It will keep going if you fall off.

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Location: Michigan
I see what your doing, I run my jib the opposite way so that its all the way at the bottom hole of the adjuster or left in your adjuster picture.

I might try what your doing, and see how it works. no extra D rings for me though, I'd rather just get a longer forestay wire and put it between the mast tang and jib tension adjuster pulley.

My mast stands more upright because of it, It came that way (stock) and I've always run it that way because sailing on an inland lake, I want the boat to point the best I can upwind. But now I begin to wonder if that little bit of gain, if any at all, is overshadowed by a greater chance of pitchpole on a down wind beat .

My sails are similar to yours but are light blue to dark blue to light blue up at the last 3 panels of my main starting in the panel with the H insignia. My jib is all dark blue.
Looks like you have a Tampacats mesh on there, I'm still running with my Original blue vinyl that I've repaired a bunch of times.
How has that tramp worked for you? I'm considering replacing mine with that same aftermarket.

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:42 pm
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Location: Sarasota Sailing Squadron
http://home1.gte.net/res07lm8/hobie/arc ... ature2.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Location: Sarasota Sailing Squadron
you should do this with your seaway blocks you can get more mast rack. cheap lo-profile blocks
http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=87449

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:07 pm 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
optikid wrote:
http://home1.gte.net/res07lm8/hobie/archives/v5-i1/feature2.htm


This. Do it this way. My way is a tiny bit overrated.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Thank you Optikid: for all those links. The mod from seaway blocks to low pro blocks is very do able, and cool for the low buck. The mast rake and rudder rake articles are very do able and are a good read, in fact, I'm going to have to read them several times to fully grasp what is being presented.
I'm very tempted to rake my mast, but not with the one thats currently on there, ( its 2/3 aluminum 1/3 comptip at the top) I'd want to rake a one-piece, which I have. I still like how CherokeeSailor has his, I like the angle his is at.
I don't really want the most aggressive rake, I'm not a racer, just more of a serious recreational sailor. I like to improve, and maintan what I have.
Cherokee sailor if you read this again, I noticed that your shrouds are attached to your mast tang at the upper hole. On my boat the shrouds and forestay are all mounted on the same type mast tang, but on the lower hole with the D clevas , My duel trapeze wires are mounted on the upper two holes. The D ring clevas screw pin, goes through the top hole, and the clevas goes through the big hole with the due trapeze wires on each side centering it when assembled.
I guess the question I'm asking is: are your shouds shorter than stock ? because of modification, purchase or because of the way you mounted them into the top hole. What did you gain, by installing that way to shorten them up so you could rake back where you did?
Also how do you like your Tampa cat trampoline? Does it tension up good on your rig?
Thank you for all the Info ?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Just saw your post from yesterday, I must have missed that. I actually didn't put much thought into where I attached the shrouds other than trying to keep them separate from the forestay. This is embarrassing to say, but my boat actually has different length shrouds, not so different that it's a huge problem, I just attach one shroud at the upper hole and the one on the other side at the bottom hole, luckily that evens them out(PO must have bought the wrong kind at some point). I wish I could help you more with that. The Tramp has held up well, it has only been on for two years though. It doesn't get extremely tight, that is a downside.

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Location: Michigan
Don't sweat it, My boat ain't perfect either, 23 years of sailing it, going over, pitch polling,here and there, wear and tear. It gets used, thats what gives it character, it does'nt sit on the lift to look pretty. When that day comes, its time to hang it up. All it has to do is work.
Thanks again for the info.

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Location: Sarasota Sailing Squadron
if they are different lengths that means one is old one is new. i dont know what year but at one point hobie started making the shrouds shorter for more mast rake. for the sea way blocks here is how to do it, but you need pics or else it's alittle confusing http://www.thebeachcats.com/OnTheWire/w ... /tip57.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:35 pm
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Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
1994/1995 year when they changed if I am not mistaken


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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:11 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
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Location: Clinton, Mississippi
FYI, common wisdom (in general terms) is......

M in MI's description of how his forestay, shrouds, and trap wires are connected to the tang is "correct". On older masts there was only one hole, so there was no option. Extra shackles should not be used..... an extra adjuster (like in the pic above) at the bottom would be better. Also, the big shackle holding the shrouds and forestay should have a hole in the end of the pin where SS safety wire is looped though and wound so that the pin doesn't loosen accidentally. Alls these are to minimize chance of a dismast.

More (aft) mast rake puts more pressure on the sterns and less on the bows. This depowers, improves pointing, and lessens pitchpole tendency. Less rake improves power and helps downwind, but makes the 16 more likely to pitch in big wind. For heavy crews, chop, or light air, less rake is better. For light crews, flat water, and high wind, more is better. In between, the combinations are many, and since rake can't be adjusted on the water, you sometimes just have to guess.

The problem with pinning the jib tack too low at the bridle is that the jib sheets will go block to block well before the jib is actually sheeted flat.

Regardless of how much the mast is raked (aft) by shortening shrouds, lengthening forestay, etc. It won't help (and may hurt) performance if the mainsail is so stretched that it's can't be tightened enough to flatten it when the mainsheet is block to block.

To set for max rake, pin shrouds as low as they will go, but where the mainsheet is just short of going block to block when sheeted hard. Once rake is set, whether max rake or something less, pin jib tack as low as it will go, but where jib sheets are not quite block to block when sheeted hard. Then, if you have a multi-hole clew plate, pin jib clew where tension on foot and leech are equal (upper and lower telltails break at the same time). All of these have to be set with the boat fully rigged and the rig tightened, so it can take some iterations.

These are just the basics. There are lots of tricks out there to tweak the block stack heights, jib connections, etc to acheive more or less rake when needed. My experience was that, until I learned to really handle the boat, differences in mast rake were negligible in terms of performance for most conditions.

Hope this helps!

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 Post subject: Re: Cherokee sailor?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:54 am 
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Very nice contribution rattle 'n hum,
I'm trying to think of all these things to set up an older boat, and the more people weigh in, it really helps to consider the variables. (I'm also searching the archives) Thanks again.

The wire hole in D ring clevas pin end, to install the safety wire to keep the pin from working its way out. Mine has that, I've just never put a wire in it before. I've always just made sure the pin was torqued tight, never had a problem with it. But this year, I think I'm going to install that wire, thats the one place I'd hate to be de-masted from.

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