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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Tom, that was an amazing blog.
http://www.tropicalboating.com/2013/03/speck-taters-view-of-the-watertribe-2013-everglades-challenge

Comprehensive, but still detailed and thoughtful. It helped me stitch together many of the loose info threads I picked up during the race.

Thanks for that.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:59 pm 
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PassWind wrote:
there's strength (and comfort) in numbers .. you can duke it out on the last leg
There did turn out to be a sprint for the finish between Shred and Penguinman. I don't know what happened to Shred, but I heard reports that he was stuck in the mud somewhere near the finish.

Pass the popcorn, please,..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Speaking of "strength" in numbers, Pelican's TI flipped and was shipwrecked...

This is from Doglifes site: http://dogslifeadventures.blogspot.com

Image

Hope there was safety in numbers, following this capsize.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:52 pm 
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Just caught up on all of this. What a great read. Thanks Nohuhu and others for a very entertaining and informative post and of course a big thumbs up to the intrepid competitors for making it happen. 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:20 am 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Speaking of "strength" in numbers, Pelican's TI flipped and was shipwrecked...

This is from Doglifes site: http://dogslifeadventures.blogspot.com

Image

Hope there was safety in numbers, following this capsize.


Quote:
Off Naples Pelican's TI had a aka pop off. Boat flipped and did some damage. Then they got pushed into rock jetty's. the boat was completely chewed up by the rocks. They lost everything.


I'm curious about this. How does an aka "pop off" an AI? I can't imagine the stainless pin breaking, so did the aluminum break, or what?

I seldom remove mine, but last time I did I could see that the pin had enlarged the hole in the aluminum a fair bit. That was a while back, so I'm sure it's worse now.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:36 am 
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Wow! That is pretty amazing happening for Pelican. He seems to specialize in demonstrating what can go wrong on these WaterTribe events. He is a "motivational" speaker so he might relish some of it: "How to overcome incredible, insurmountable problems." It is a shame, however, to have that accident and lose everything.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:22 am 
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His boat was a TI. I think the aka came out of the ama at the bungee on the leeward side. His bungees were not reinforced and it was a older 2010 TI. You do not maintain your equipment, things will let go in extreme situations.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:38 am 
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Here is Pelican (aka Nick Hall), his son, and family just before launch from Ft Desoto.

Keith

Image

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:17 am 
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looks like an Ama bungy snapped

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:39 am 
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In my picture above of Pelican & family, I noticed right away that the front aka was connected to the ama using the higher pin--more stress on the bungee. It would seem that one or the other side broke. I would have a hard time pulling my bungee up to that pin. I suppose Pelican's son did that--and caused the failure?

How many people use that upper pin on the front akas?

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:45 am 
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If your original bungee will easily stretch that far, it's likely past its prime and should be replaced.

I don't have the figures for these products, but like so many things bungees most likely have a stretch limit beyond which they fatigue more quickly or undergo immediate damage.

The fix isn't to stretch the bungee further, but to replace it with a new one. If a new one doesn't do the job, it should be replaced with a thicker (large diameter) one.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:54 am 
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Could have ripped off during the beating too. Once an Ama rips loose there is a twisting action. I saw one boat with the Ama/Aka joint unseated, but that was probably fixed before launch.

Tom, all TIs have the new knucked joints, rather than the old AI's reliable steel pins. They are known for breaking loose.

Either failure is easily avoidable.

I didn't notice any double bungie mods on the EC boats. And tied off Akas on very few. Maybe these tweaks will show up next year. They're really good ideas for any expedition.

Along with ROID seals and lots of comfort foam.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:56 am 
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NOHUHU:
When I first got my TI something like this happened to me (AKA came out) and I dumped a passenger, (she still will not go out with me sailing LOL).
Your right things get all twisted up very quickly no matter what the initial failure was. Hard to know what happened, if a sheer pin gave out or the AKA came out, or just the bungy failed, same results "damage".

Ever since that first mishap I just snap on my little 1/4 inch nylon safety rope on whenever I go out, and it keeps the AMA's from rattling around, and prevents them from coming off if a bungy fails (I never trusted those things anyway), and if a sheer pin breaks the rope also prevents the AMA's from folding in until I can get the sails down and make repairs.
I keep the rope threaded around the front AKA's with stainless clips on each end and just stuff the ends into the mesh pockets when storing, then when, I install the AMA's I just clip the rope to the stainless jib padeye's in the middle of the AMA's, takes 30 seconds.
showing the safety rope clipped to the AMA
Image

I don't know if anyone else has broke their sheer pins on the AKA's, but I have sheered off quite a few, I was out last weekend just screaming along with all my sails out on a downwind run, a big gust from the side buried my AMA about 2 ft under water and I came to a screaching halt (almost did a Captn Chaos pitchpole). Without that rope I know the AKA pin would have sheared.
I suppose a second rope could be added around the rear AKA brace also to create like a truss, but I haven't found a need for it yet, all my failures have been from either hitting docks, or burying the AMA's at high speed, all trying to push the AMA back.
Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Thanks Bob - I'd like to see a wider shot with all the attachment points.

The only issue I see with that location is the possibility that it will restrict paddling, or boarding/deboarding. If that's the case, I would prefer bow lines to the front Ama padeyes. Works on both AI's and TI's.

Those tramps you have there are very effective at resisting Aka collapses, as I have learned many times on my AI. Hakas, not so much.

I highly recommend KBob's method of using spectra to leash those new clipped Akas to the hull. Don't leave home without it!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Keith, Looks like Pelican was using the new thicker bungee on his Amas, and he may have felt this was enough. Maybe it was till things started crashing on the sharp rocks. :cry:

Image

Still, there is almost a ZERO percent chance of a proper double bungie system failing. Given the prospect of this type of harsh damage, doing that mod is a no-brainer.


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