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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:19 am 
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Kal-P-Dal wrote:
Do you think there will be more posts from "whitewater"?
This was the first and only.
A little like entering a church, release a big loud fart, and leave. :lol:

br thomas


so critique and analysis are not welcome here?

I think I shall call mine "Sycophants Wet Dream"


How is that?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:07 am 
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Kal-P-Dal wrote:
Do you think there will be more posts from "whitewater"?
This was the first and only.
A little like entering a church, release a big loud fart, and leave. :lol:

br thomas


I believe that is what dregsfan was eluding to

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:23 am 
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aloftas wrote:
so critique and analysis are not welcome here?

I think I shall call mine "Sycophants Wet Dream"


How is that?


No critique is not welcome here.

I have posted lots of critique and surely crossed a line where Hobie fans got annoyed and made remarks so I would understand that critisism have to be very precize to be appriceated and well taken.

Just to say that you are not impressed by the mirage drive is too common and blury. Just the right way to annoy forum members. Probably intended.

Another answer is that if you compare a sleek, normal, fast kayak with a mirage driven Hobie, the statement is correct. There is nothing to be impressed by.

But if you compare a certain Hobie kayak, paddling, with the same Hobie kayak, mirage driven, there is a huge difference and the winner is the mirage drive.

br thomas


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Kal-P-Dal wrote:
aloftas wrote:
so critique and analysis are not welcome here?

I think I shall call mine "Sycophants Wet Dream"


How is that?


No critique is not welcome here.

I have posted lots of critique and surely crossed a line where Hobie fans got annoyed and made remarks so I would understand that critisism have to be very precize to be appriceated and well taken.

Just to say that you are not impressed by the mirage drive is too common and blury. Just the right way to annoy forum members. Probably intended.

Another answer is that if you compare a sleek, normal, fast kayak with a mirage driven Hobie, the statement is correct. There is nothing to be impressed by.

But if you compare a certain Hobie kayak, paddling, with the same Hobie kayak, mirage driven, there is a huge difference and the winner is the mirage drive.

br thomas



ROFL pure semantic pc drivel...the mirage drive is a nice unit, very clever..but to say it either cannot be improved on, or criticized is an Orwellian mindset thet I WILL NOT adhere to.

Thank You Citizen No.76534-098-0009


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:47 pm 
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aloftas wrote:
ROFL pure semantic pc drivel...the mirage drive is a nice unit, very clever..but to say it either cannot be improved on, or criticized is an Orwellian mindset thet I WILL NOT adhere to.

Thank You Citizen No.76534-098-0009


Sorry, but I think there must be some missunderstanding here.
I am quiete sure you did not get my point and most certain I did not get yours.

"to say it either cannot be improved on, or criticized", I have not said anything like this or meant to.

I have two things to say, one about this forum, and one about the mirage drive.

1
This forum is a bit sensitive to criticism about Hobies. Not surprisingly. A fact I have noted myself. But people here are very helpful and make sincere efforts to explain how to overcome problems. I, personally, think it is a bit unpolite to post a blury comment like the treadstarter as a first post in this forum. It makes me suspect that this is an intended "fart" in the "Hobie-church".
Ie a troll. And a perfect attack! As my smiley indicated. I see it just as a joke.

2
The mirage drive should be compared to a paddel in the same hull.
When you do that, you should experience greater speed with less effort.
But it is not entirely correct. Because if you get greater speed you also burn more calories even if it FEELS like less effort.

In the end the question is:
Do "whitewater" need any help or is he just a joker?

br thomas


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Of course any criticism or critique is acceptable as long as such issues are explained and elaborated on in a way that allows others to appreciate what concern or concerns are being communicated, while still being respectful of other forum members.

Most would carefully consider a first post on a Ford Mustang forum that included "Is it just me and my wife? Today, we had a second test drive of a 2013 Ford Mustang Boss 302. The 1st time was 6 months ago. It seems like a great idea but when you actually drive it, we were not impressed. Its no better than a 2013 Camaro ZL1, its just different. Your thoughts." Does the OP realize how vague their first post was? Do they really want help or are they looking for a confrontation? What seems like a great idea? Why weren't you impressed? What were you expecting? Is the handling poor? Was there some mechanical problem with it? Did you find it too difficult to operate? Did you expect it to be quicker? Was it difficult to control?

There are many on this site who have a wealth of experience and knowledge and are more than willing to respond to a new Hobie member who is getting adjusted to using their kayak. Maybe the OP doesn't have much experience posting on forums, and/or is unaware of forum ettiquette? They may have genuinely thought their posting was suitably clear and descriptive.

With that said - my first time out on my Hobie Adventure, I wasn't impressed either. The steering wasn't very responsive. And it turned poorly, and better in one direction than the other. When I communicated this concern in a thread here - Roadrunner reminded me that the down rudder control line needed to be cleated. Once I did that - it fixed every concern I had about the steering. It felt like a completely different kayak. By stating my concern clearly, it gave others who now understood my problem, an opportunity to help me. It was much appreciated, even though the fix was embarrassingly simple!

Mike


Last edited by Quetico on Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Think there are a couple of folks who just like to stir the pot for the sake of stirring the pot.

I'm not impressed :!:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:37 pm 
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islandspeed2001 wrote:
Think there are a couple of folks who just like to stir the pot for the sake of stirring the pot.

I'm not impressed :!:

And I think a $3500 dollar plastic vessel should expect, and pass with flying colours, the FULLEST of scrutiny...no?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:50 pm 
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My post just got approved on my end today. I guess someone had to think long and hard about allowing a critical post. My wife and I have owned kayaks for the last 7 years or so. I am a lifelong duck hunter and have been paddling perogues all my life. I am now 49 years old. We own (2) heritage redfish 14s for fishing. My wife is not as good a paddler as I and often has trouble keeping up and finding her way around the maze of salt marsh that we fish in. We wanted to try tandem fishing out so that we could avoid the 2 prevous problems as well as actually interact more when we fish. We have rented tandem paddle yaks and as it usually is, I am dong most of the paddling and it is difficult with the extra weight of another person and a heavier hull that it far less hydrodynamic than a solo kayak. I once stopped someone on the beach that had an oasis and they were gracious enough to let us try it out. It too had that heavy cumbersome feeling to it. I just tried another out from a guy that we were considering buying one from and had that same initail feelings asa well. Niether way is easy. I would have to say that I am still very much considering one because of the hands free fishing. I did not have a pro advising me of proper setup either time. Perhaps it takes some fine tuning to get it dialid in.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:49 am 
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whitewater wrote:
My post just got approved on my end today. I guess someone had to think long and hard about allowing a critical post.


The first was approved by me on Saturday morning. I didn't have to think long or hard... we have a small moderation staff and during weekends and holidays, our days off, forum moderation of the first two posts can take some time. That's all.

The standard Mirage fins can push a barge (or tow a boat) with very little effort on your legs, so would be perfect for pedaling when a crew does not.

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It is possible that you tried a boat that does have the Turbo fins as mentioned in several other posts. They have resistance that can make the initial feel like being in third gear on a bike just starting out. Standard fins commonly feel very light to the legs... like being in first gear down hill.

Review roadrunner's suggestion about pedal adjustments, seat angle etc. It could be very uncomfortable to have the pedals too short.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Location: vero beach, fl
im not sure how a tandem feels--either a peddle or paddle, as i have been in neither. i can only assume these boats are 'cumbersome' feeling compared to a single person kayak. perhaps the comparison is more fair if you try a mirage drive boat similar to the one you are paddling now. just a thought. and your wife might find that a single person mirage drive boat is just what she needs to 'keep up, honey'. try a test ride with the dealer--they can get the boat set up for you in the most comfortable and efficient settings.


and for the goofiest statement of the day....
"This forum is a bit sensitive to criticism about Hobies. Not surprisingly"

sort of like going to an AA meeting, and wanting to discuss what sort of rum you prefer. pure genius.

this is a HOBIE forum, where owners and near-owners get together to share info. it's not really the place for dragging the name through the mud, under the guise of 'criticism'. there are at least 10,436 other forums that would greatly appreciate the soap-box critique. but, if one has some rigging techniques or a neat trick or some fish photos--then welcome, 'hello my name is drew, and i am a fishaholic'.

cheers.
drew

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:51 am 
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@whitewater
My apologies about guessing you being a troll. I was 98% sure your first post was a joke. :oops: :oops:

I have read your second post and are still not sure excatly what the problem is. As I stated before, to understand the real difference between a paddle and the mirage drive, you have to compare sitting in the same hull. If you don't experince the difference then, something isn't set up right.


@ uno mas
uno mas wrote:
and for the goofiest statement of the day....
"This forum is a bit sensitive to criticism about Hobies. Not surprisingly"

sort of like going to an AA meeting, and wanting to discuss what sort of rum you prefer. pure genius.

this is a HOBIE forum, where owners and near-owners get together to share info. it's not really the place for dragging the name through the mud, under the guise of 'criticism'.


There is a fine line between critics and critics. And also the reason why you post some critics. I have seen lots of critics in this forum, most due to things that Hobie owners wants to change in their kayaks. Therefore the kayaks are continuously enhanced and developed.
My english is maybe not the best and perhaps you had prefered "This forum is a bit sensitive to dragging the name through the mud. Not surprisingly"

My point was, critics/criticism should be carefully served, in the spirit of wanting to overcome some problem or getting ideas for a solution.

I quote myself:
"I have posted lots of critique and surely crossed a line where Hobie fans got annoyed and made remarks so I would understand that critisism have to be very precize to be appriceated and well taken."

br thomas (the goof)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:28 am 
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This weekend in the New Orleans area, a local outdoors outfitter is having a demo day on the water. Hopefully there will be some folks there who may be of assistance. I think the reasons for my let-down was two-fold:
1.All the hype surrounding Mirage drive
2. Swithing to a tandem rig.
I would have to think that yes, if you put a mirage drive in my solo kayak I have now, it would be awesome. I will find out this weekend.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:00 am 
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Whitewater, good luck, hope you get to try out some of the single seater mirage-driven hobies, they can be quite fast with the right model and fin combination.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:18 am 
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whitewater wrote:
This weekend in the New Orleans area, a local outdoors outfitter is having a demo day on the water. Hopefully there will be some folks there who may be of assistance. I think the reasons for my let-down was two-fold:
1.All the hype surrounding Mirage drive
2. Swithing to a tandem rig.
I would have to think that yes, if you put a mirage drive in my solo kayak I have now, it would be awesome. I will find out this weekend.


If you get the chance, try an Adventure kayak (or an Adventure Island without the amas) with Turbo fins. That should give you an idea of what the cruising speed will be for the top of the line single person kayak. Then try other boats.

When I moved from my Adventure Island, I remembered feeling that the Oasis was quite a bit slower when I pedalled it solo. Two things come into play. The hull design is much different, and I was operating the Oasis with standard fins. So there's certainly some variance in boats and fins.

Secondly, I remember that my Adventure Island didn't feel all that fast to me, until we were out on a small lake with a storm coming in. There were several kayaks out that day, and we all had to race in to shore. Seeing the types of boats that I was keeping up with, and in fact surpassing, was a real eye opener. But remember, it is going to be different. A paddle kayak takes LONG strokes, and the boat has more glide. The Mirage Drive boats have shorter "strokes" and give you a lot of torque, but seemingly less "horsepower". Sort of like a diesel engine in a car.

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