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 Post subject: Surprising discovery!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
There I was leaving the shore in my TI, with about 100 yards of very shallow water to cross before going sailing in my TI. With rudder & centreboard up, the TI was hopeless under paddle, stubbornly refusing to stay in a straight line,

I stopped paddling for a moment, and the TI turned right round so I faced the shore. I casually started paddling backwards and EUREKA!, it went straight as an arrow!!!

For some weird reason, my TI is perfectly stable going backwards, and this is now my preferred method when moving about in confined spaces.

Give it a try and see if it works for you, I was amazed :mrgreen:

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Location: oki - jp
i'm guessing maybe cuz you sit in the rear and with the weight being in the rear its easier for the propulsion to pull the weight forward from the front (you going backwards) than to push the weight forward from the rear (you going forwards).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Location: Riverside, S. California, USA
I would expect that it would work the other way round. when a canoe is out of trim (deep in the back, say) it would be quite hard to make it go straight backwards. Forwards, it would be harder than if in trim, but easier than backwards.

I will have to try to see if I find the difference reported in maneuverability backwards (forwards never seemed so random to me).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:24 pm 
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I sit in the front seat, which is basically the middle, so I don't think the hull is other than pretty level. I liken it to an arrow, and when paddling forwards, it is like pushing the feathers. Weird eh?

I hope to hear of experiments by others... maybe my hull is distorted? It doesn't look it, and I have measured the amas positions in relation to the hull, and they are all square.

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www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
The keel in the back was acting like a rudder, increasing drag and giving you power steering. Like the rack and pinion on your vehicle.

If you were heading into wind and currents, with the weight biased to the stern, it becomes even more effective. Just as putting a trolling motor on the bow gives you greater control of direction (or backwinding the sail and rudder).

That's my guess, though I never tried it, cuz I'm not that Lolo. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:25 am 
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Location: Perth West Australia
Hey Tony, that is interesting.

I have found the TI to be mich better at staying in a straight line than the AI. However, when I am in the back seat solo, it is a lot harder to keep in one position going really slow for fishing.

I also find it hard to stay in the same direction while drift fishing so I tend to maintain position by reversing the mirrage drive in the well and peddaling slowly backwards.

Like you have found, it is easier to manouvre when paddeling backwards to get into a letty or boat ramp. But I have not tried this with the rudder up.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:46 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
tonystott:
I think there is a simple fix for paddleing your TI in a straight line. Don't use the paddles ( we don't) LOL

But seriously we used to have an old Oasis which only had steering control on the back, so if you were solo you basically had to sit in the back. The bow of the boat would be out of the water and it would be very difficult to paddle from the back seat and go in a straight line (basically useless solo without massive ballast). The newer design is way superier because you can solo in the front seat and the boat is way more balanced.
When we first got our TI we experieced the same kind of steering problems when kayak paddling or solo pedaling from the back seat. Once I jumped up into the front seat (solo) all the problems went away and the TI is by far the fastest, most stable, and best handling kayak I have ever owned.
With our old Oasis kayaking tandem was a nightmare because the front and rear passenger had to be perfectly coordinated (why they call them divorce boats) . Now with the TI we actually prefer kayaking tandem now, as a tandem team you can go much further with less stress, and one person can rest their legs and/or arms while the other peddles without loosing much speed. The way it works with us, I ask my wife in the back are you pedaling she says yes, I then turn around to look and she starts pedaling until I turn back around. As we slow down I ask are you still pedaling, she say yes. I actually don't mind because the TI pedals easily even with just one person pedaling. As long as we are not trying to win a race we can both pedal for 10 hrs, then go out and do it again the next day. We could not do that with our old Oasis single or tandem.
in very calm water with the AMA's mounted on the TI if you try to balance so neither AMA drags in the water it doesn't seem to affect speed and distance too badly, but with the mast up (furled) this affects our wind resistance and slows us down (it's better to stow the mast in no wind). Typically when we are setup for sailing we are all geared up (motor, anchor, coolers, scuba gear, kitchen sink, etc) with the boat is near or at max weight, and more often than not extra passengers. Basically we have two different boats in one, a great touring kayak, and an awesome excursion sailboat.
I think there is something about boat length and paddling ease, it seems all the great paddle kayaks are very long (longer than my TI), at least thats my observation since I can't afford one of those (most cost way more than a TI).
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:58 am 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Tony, not to impugn your paddling skills, but could you not put some sail out, and steer with the paddle (even shallow pedaling) to achieve better pointing? Forward, I mean. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:12 pm 
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When the water is less than one foot deep, there are not many alternatives to paddling, other than walking (which is not really ideal in my case due to back & hip issues). While the idea of putting some sail out sounds appealing, this depends very much on wind direction, and more importantly, that there is some wind at all.

All I know is that in future, if I have to paddle my TI without the rudder down, I will do so backwards.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Location: High Point, NC
Getting back into a shore landing at the dock, this could have a lot of merit. As it is, I generally furl the sail, pull the centerboard, and try to ease the boat onto the ramp, bow first, fins feathered. Depending on the angle of the dock, I can sometimes jump out and stop the bow from hitting concrete or whatever.

Coming in reverse, all I'd have to do is raise the rudder and back up to the dock. I could easily get out a couple feet from shore and all would be well. May have to give it a try.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Location: Aussie living in San Diego, CA
tonystott wrote:
All I know is that in future, if I have to paddle my TI without the rudder down, I will do so backwards.


Tony, it occurs to me that partially lowering the centreboard by just moving the centreboard lever about 1"-2" it protrudes maybe 4"-5" below the hull which would act like a long fin (similar to surfboards) and it may give you the enough directional stability for your paddle in the shallow waters. In this position the centreboard knob sits right alongside the carrying handle so it should be fairly easy to use a bungy cord to hold it in that position. if the board strikes the bottom the board should just kick up as the bungy is holding it from fully deploying but not from retracting.

Barry

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:21 am
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Location: DARWIN, NORTHERN TERRITORY, AUSTRALIA
Hey Tony/Geordie;
I reckon its got something to do with the fact that we're in the Southern Hemisphere, and all your helpfull comments are coming from the Northern Hemisphere...I'm pretty close to the equator in Darwin and mine often goes sideways parrallel to the beach! LOL oops sorry I'll...er stop writing try and learn something from these forum threads!
Cheers Vintagereplica


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:55 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Funny guy! :mrgreen:

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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