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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Location: oki - jp
so i want to add two new cam cleats to my TI, one on each side just behind the rear seat facing out towards the amas so they will bite and not let rope go out to the ama (not important).

anyways how do i mount these, just screw them straight down? also i don't want ones that have a top on them like the ones hobie gives us on the TI, i want ones that are open on the top so you can pull a rope and just cleat it down and not have to thread it through the top thing.

something that looks like this here in this pic (468 or 471)Image

any advice on how to install one of these cleats, do they just screw in straight through the two holes, and is this enough to say hold 50-80 lbs of force if its just screwed into the kayak molding or do i need to do something special to reinforce it?? thanks you guys's


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:31 am 
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The cleats are bolted down so you need to be able to get to the underside. Thankfully that is not too much of a problem in most locations on a Ti.

Most uses it will be fine bolted through the hull with big washers underneath. You could consider other options such a mounting on a track if you need flexibility in position.

The thing you refer to is a fairlead and that is used to keep the rope in place. They are optional so you buy a cleat and then add a fairlead if you want one.

Choose the cleat so suit your rope diameter and pocket. Harken are the most expensive but probably the best.

Cc

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Location: oki - jp
do these harken ones come with bolts you think or do you know of a cleat that comes with them. i am not necessarily trying to buy the best or spend 50$ on two so if you have any other recommendations i'm all ears. i had just done a quick internet search and low and behold the west marine was the first to pop up, guess they payed big $$$ to have their links pop up first.

so what do you recommend, drilling two small holes in the TI pushing the bolts through and just tightening them down? thank you,


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
Use 8-32 bolts with pan heads, large fender washers, and lock nuts. Only use stainless steel. Expect to pay around $23-25 a cleat, base plates and fairleads are extra. Seal the holes with silicon. Don't tighten the bolts to much or the cams will bind

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also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Location: oki - jp
so here's a good one for you, get ready for it... we don't have a boating store on the island i live on.

there is a fishing store (huge) and a hardware store (huge) but not a boating store or any store i've found that sells anything sailing related.

how do you recommend i get these parts? is there an online store or website i can order the "8-32 bolts with pan heads, large fender washers, and lock nuts" from? hopefully the hardware store will have washers and nuts but what are 8-32 bolts??

i actually have, no wait i had to throw out my silicon before i moved due to moving restrictions so i need to buy some more silicon but i'm hoping that is sold at the hardware store.

do cleats come with mounting hardware at all??


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:13 am 
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Hi Rusty,

The do not come with hardware. The 8-32 refers to the size 8 and 32 threads. The 32 is a "fine" thread as opposed to a "corse" thread.

These are standard screws.

If you want to make it super strong I put a backing piece of High density plastic from here:
http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plas ... rboard/526

I personally would not use only bolts to hold 80 lbs of pressure. I would use some backing.

I don't use sealant. Instead I drill the hole 1/32 too small. Then I thread the screws through the hole.

I live is seattle about 2 miles from this place:

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/

They have pretty much everything ever made. I know they have the full Harkin line of hardware in the sailing shop. I bought some there.

The have those screws- nuts bolts too.

Dean Hoshizaki

PS: if you have too much a problem let me know and I can go down there and pick it all out and then you can order it via a reference. I go down there all the time and I am going there tomorrow. DeanHosh@hotmail.com


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:21 am 
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Location: oki - jp
thanks i know what your saying about the size 8 but when i'm on their website just now there are just way too many different styles of bolts to choose from:

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/bolts

wow, i never thought it would be so confusing to just mount up two new cleats. geez :)

it would be cool if they would just included hardware with the cleats to install. i may be emailing you here shortly.

would it be to much trouble to ask you to put together the mounting hardware and i can call up that shop and order with CC for the hardware, two cams, & two blocks (http://www.fisheriessupply.com/harken-t2-soft-attach-blocks)??? thank you again sir for offering to assist.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:39 am 
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Not a problem to put an order together. I was down there and asked them about it and they said No Problem.

You can pay them and they will ship. I will help put it together but going in the shop and picking the stuff out.

Dean


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
rusty_sojah:
Being in Japan, you won't likely find American screws, or taps (the holes need to be threaded).
M4 screws will work fine (available at any hardware over there), you can also get a tap to thread the holes while your there (only if you are mounting onto the aluminum AKA crossbar).
One thing to be cautious about is the length of the screws if mounting to the AKA crossbars. If you are mounting near the ends of the AKA bar, if the screws are too long they will interfere with the snap in AKA bars (no problem with length of the screws if you are adding them in the middle section of the AKA though). If you have a TI, they already have the tapped holes in the front AKA bar to fit at least 4 Harken cleats, however those are likely pre-tapped American 8/32 thread.
If you are putting these cleats into the plastic hull, the guys are right, you will have to put it in a place where you can reach underneath to be able to put in large washers and nuts (or a pre-tapped aluminum plate). I've heard of people using expanding nuts and stuff when screwing attachments to the hull, but they cannot take much load, and typically will leak water eventually (not recommended).
Hope this helps you
Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Location: oki - jp
well thanks for all the tips...

first step for me is going to be hand testing this design concept. i'm just going to get a couple cheap hooks and pretend they are blocks and see how much load is even put on the line when i thread it through the rear ama eyelet and back to the main sail metal ring at the back and then release the black line (its early and my words aren't coming to me yet) and pull the new one to get the sail to go towards the rear ama.

i'm really only to be using this method in low wind scenarios like 5 mph and less and just want to see if it makes a significant difference in being about to point into the wind more.

after plotting my tracks (via gps on smartphone) i noticed that i am really going well out of the way when what, tracking into the wind. if i can reduce this just a little i think it will make a big difference over time and allow me to go further and get to places faster. hopefully i can test this out in a couple days this next weekend since the weather wasn't good this past weekend.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:06 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Rusty, I am glad you have mentioned what you are hoping to achieve. Maybe you have not been clear in your description, but the way you wrote it suggests you are hoping to be able to sail closer to the wind by applying force on the back (clew) of the sail from a line attached to the rear of the ama.

If that is what you meant, it will have the opposite effect. In order to sail as close to the wind as possible, the standard location of the mainsheet pulley, just in front of the rudder, is correct.

However, if you want to improve the shape of the sail when sailing anywhere from across the wind (reaching) or running (going downwind), then being able to pull the clew out away from the main hull can be an advantage.

Just trying to ensure you are not going to a lot of effort with false expectations...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Location: oki - jp
okay okay so you definitely refreshed my memory on the mechanics of sailing. its been a few years since i've sailed anything but this TI. so the jib is the one that allows you to sail closer into the wind and the rear sail being stretched out further would allow you to sail more down wind essentially???

i'm pretty much just bored and wanted to see if i could make it any more efficient with some small tweaks but not sure how much i will gain by being able to sail more down wind by trying this mod, any quesses?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Location: oki - jp
so last weekend after a big storm a small sail boat washed up on the beach next to ours and it had all the cam cleats and blocks i could have ever needed. it had about 3 different sizes of cleats and 4 various sizes of blocks. so i went down with a screw driver and was able to get some nice quality parts.

the boat had no mast, sail, or lines, but did still have all the other hardware still attached. it had a big hole in the side so i don't think its usable anymore,, before you guys start making recommendations. it seemed like a 14 foot laser but i'm not 100% sure.


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:16 am 
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Location: Okinawa
Hi rusty, fellow Okinawa dweller!

mad story about the washed up dinghy! wonder where it washed up from? I once saw a malibu two kayak blowing away north from a beach in Yomitan and found it the next day washed up on a beach close to my place in Morobu!

Maybe useful for future reference for you there is a small chandlery place just a few miles from you over @ Yaka (just out of Ishikawa on the way to Kin) . It's called Yaka marine and you can see some of the boats in his yard from the road (R329). He has lots of different fittings, cleats etc and he speaks some English. You'll get some US size threaded nuts/bolts at some of the hardware stores but usually in bigger sizes....hope this helps some...

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:20 am 
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Location: oki - jp
hey neighbor,, what road is that store on? i've seen one with some old boats and a bunch of old small boat motors that is right off of 58 a little bit north of cape manza but i'm not sure if its in onna or nago though, plus i've never actually stopped as it appears like an otaku small outboard shop. thanks for the info though...


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