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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:37 am 
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So I remember reading several post where older style collars on the TI were allowing the akas to separate from the xbar without pinching the retainer clips. I assumed I was safe since I have a 2012 TI.

Last night I found out I was not safe. My name is Jay, and I am a victim in this story. :lol: So I am out night fishing, as I've done many times. Both amas, hakas secured, no sail. Light 5mph wind, very light chop. Current is ripping out very fast. Sitting in the middle to front of the haka bench casting up to a lit piling of a popular night fishing bridge. Then all hell breaks loose. front starboard aka magically unclips, although at the time I didn't know what the heck happened. Scrambling, I handed my rod to my inexperienced copilot in the rear cockpit. Getting my bearings, I realized what had happened and grabbed the aka and did a swimming tread slam back into the xbar collar. Hearing the reassuring *click*, I pulled myself back into the boat using the haka and aka for leverage. I then realized that we were already dangerously close to the bridge pilings, the current taking the boat at a speedy 2.5mph directly under the the bridge. The rear of the starboard ama is on a direct collision course. Brace for impact. Boom! Aka support bar shear pin instantly destroyed as designed. Nice work, Hobie, I think to myself as my copilot gives me a look of sheer terror. "Start pedaling, FAST!", I tell him. This is where the hakas saved my hide. The positioning of my haka clips more or less force the akas to be held fully extended. I reattached the front haka clip (which had been dislodged when we went in the drink). This allowed me time to grab the replacement shear pin and repair the support bar while my freaked out copilot is hauling arse away from the bridge. I've never seen anyone pedal the mirage drive that fast. Fortunately no one was hurt and no gear was lost. My first mate apologized for freezing but it all happened in less than a minute! After reassuring him that everything was fine now, we had a laugh and pedaled back to launch.

I kept trying to think of how I could have not clipped the aka in properly. I am meticulous about this each and every launch, but I know that I overlook things from time to time. Once broken down at the launch, I started testing the aka strength in the collar. I found that clipped in, if I exerted a bit of pulling force and a bit of light jerking/twisting, I was able to remove the aka every single time. This is troubling to say the very least.

So my question, after all of that is, aside from Kayaking Bob's spectra line leash, are there any other solutions out there? I read a thread where someone was talking about a Clevis Pin solution through the xbar and aka end. I was interested in these but looking for the best solution.

Also just a fun story and confirmation this anomaly can happen in relatively calm conditions not under power.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:36 pm 
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I may have something for you that doesn't require alteration of any structurally relevant parts. Give me a couple days to take some photos.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Jay - Sounds like you handled a real "Murphy moment" story and managed to avoid any serious consequences pretty well.

Quote:
I found that clipped in, if I exerted a bit of pulling force and a bit of light jerking/twisting, I was able to remove the aka every single time. This is troubling to say the very least.

This should not be possible in my opinion and I would regard it as a fault that should be rectified by your dealer under warranty if you cannot fix it yourself.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Thanks Tom,

Looking forward to what you come up with. Your solutions are always simple and top notch.

Mickey,

I am going to ask my dealer about this next time I see him. I am a trusting person and although the clips always looked and felt less than adequate, I trusted them always. That trust expired last night. I wonder why mine would be any different. I have a friend with a TI. I will look at his assembly to see if there are any noticeable differences.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Howdy Vic. :wink: So you were sitting on the detached Ama at the time (starboard)? And you what- fell overboard but there was no "capsize"? It's good thing you were not under sail.

Spectra leashing is about as reliable and simple as anything but I'm sure an over-engineered solution, introducing new points of failure is possible,.. :roll:

The real problem is the clip and knuckle design. Maybe they were never designed to handle Hakas and tramps. Maybe you have the problematic clips/sleeves that Hobie has since revised, or maybe they are just worn, or the joint is loosening.

You can work on the problem with your dealer, but in the end, you'll still need a leash.

I find it interesting that, sometimes the Aka joint locks, and the only way to separate the arm is to twist while pulling. Not a good sign...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:57 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Howdy Vic. :wink: So you were sitting on the detached Ama at the time (starboard)? And you what- fell overboard but there was no "capsize"? It's good thing you were not under sail.


Seriously Nohuhu? I would figure already lunchtime and you'd be awake by now. Tell you what, head over to Boots n Kimo in Kailua, get filled up on some macadamia nut pancakes and then check back in. Man I miss those.. :lol:

I left the front cockpit and was fishing from the starboard haka when the aka unclipped. me, my rod n' reel, and the front of my haka were all in the drink. Believe me I am darn glad I wasn't under sail. I think you may be right about the knuckle joint not being made for tramps/hakas. However, this may be the first I've heard about it happening to someone when they were sitting on one. How about you especially with the batboat with 3 xbars. A lot of potential for sudden failure.

It could be any of those things you mention. Now it still clicks, doesn't just fall out, but now that I know it is possible I will not go back out without doing something. Instead of me fiddling with a solution I will wait to see what genius idea Tom Kirkman has. He is the king of simple functionality as far as I'm concerned.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:12 pm 
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Well, that certainly doesn't put any pressure on me.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Can't get into Boot's! They moved "uptown" and have a busload of tourists in line all day. Things change.

You're referring to the "TI3", rather than the BatBoat, which was built upon the old reliable pinned Akas. We use spectra on the TI3 and ride the hell out of the Hakas. Seriously.

Best advice, stick with something low-tech. And redundant.

Hmmm, that give me an idea,.. I'll get back to ya.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
Well, that certainly doesn't put any pressure on me.


Sorry Tom,

I just like your mods.

Nohuhu,

Looking forward to your solve also. I could do the spectra, it's just having a loop over the seatback nipple as KB implemented, I could see myself getting tangled in it or accidentally knocking it off. Maybe a carabiner between them, but I could still ensnare myself.

That stinks about boots. Wasn't that way 10yrs ago

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:38 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
You're referring to the "TI3", rather than the BatBoat, which was built upon the old reliable pinned Akas.

Ah, happy days gone by. This whole knuckle joint debacle is the result of the change for change's sake attitude IMHO.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Touché. :o You're probably right.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Still a problem for the 2013 AI.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Had to pedal to shore as I could not engage on the water without swimming.
I cannot guarantee they were fully engaged but I had been sailing for 4 hrs in 10kt winds with no issues until it let go. Would be nice if there was a way to confirm full engagement of the mechanism such as a visual cue.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:19 pm 
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PP- so how would you feel about entering the Everglades Challenge NOW? :lol:

Sucks about the dismount. But what I really want to know is; Did you catch anything? :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:26 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
PP- so how would you feel about entering the Everglades Challenge NOW? :lol:

Sucks about the dismount. But what I really want to know is; Did you catch anything? :mrgreen:

EC? IN! The vid was New Melones in the Cali gold country and yes there were rainbow trout caught that day.


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