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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:15 am 
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Good point, Tony. What many people don't realize is that it has been Hobie who has pushed the AI/TI in the WT Everglades Challenge. Great advertising. The AI great showing last year and very respectable showing this year muted a lot of skeptics. Some of the best small boat sailors compete in the EC. Doing well in the EC says "The AI is not a toy." Rather amazingly, WT Chief, himself, now is an AI aficionado. Again, it would be hard for Hobie to buy better advertising.

The beauty of it all is that the AI is NOT an EC spec boat. It is an off the shelf product at a reasonable price that can do the EC. That was really why I bought my first AI years ago. I never did the EC. Still, the EC was the goal with my first AI.

I do think the EC is a good, acid-test for both the AI/TI--or any small boat, for that matter.

Keith

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:00 pm 
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I gotta say, you guys both make valid points. I can't disagree.

The distinction, for me, is that the TI began life as a sailboat that could be put in Kayak mode, the AI was just the opposite. It's good that they both share some common components now, but the V3 AI needs a few serious sailing mods (which won't diminish it as a monohulled kayak).

But to get back on thread,..

Looking again at stringy's great experiment, as exciting as this is, it seems like the wrong mast for this boat. Far too tall for the AI waterline and Amas.

Image

An optional, 25% larger sail plan, along with a furling headsail would really suit the boat. Those could improve tacking, keep the bow drier, and maybe even distribute the additional stresses you'll see when you start sailing that thing the way you know you want to. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:05 pm 
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The problem for Hobie is that as a company that is building for the masses (Trifoiler excepted) they have to be careful not to provide such a large sail plan that the average person can easily get themselves into trouble with an overpowered boat.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:31 pm 
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This is one reason I said "optional". No one get's hurt unless they want to. :wink:

But on that subject, I can flip an H16 in 30 seconds or less. I can own any number of highly volatile and popular "massed produced" sports cars and water toys. Our roads and waters here are full of morons that do.

So I really disagree with the notion that it should not or can not be done. The "don't touch a thing - they're selling like hotcakes" logic is usually employed by someone who does not WANT to make something better.

Like lazy engineers, fat sales guys and the company's lawfirm. I know these people by heart, I've been one of them.

The problem is, they eventually get lapped by someone else with a fresher idea.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:42 pm 
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People that want overpowered boats which can really rip, although can easily be capsized (and fairly easily righted) often buy cats.

The market for the AI and TI is probably comprised of a different sort of soul. But I have to leave that up to Hobie's marketing department. For all I know, you may be 100% correct.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:56 pm 
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With the advent of the larger vertical rudder on the AI, the time may be right for the sail area to be increased, at least as an optional "sports pack". With the old T&S rudder, the AI was easily overpowered, even with its existing sail area.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Great point Chris - I meant to say something about Stringy's older style test boat accepting the TI mast but not having enough rudder for the job. A new hull might be worthy.

Tom, Hobie could just keep squirting out the same plastic mold for the next ten years, and just give me the excuse I need to sail this one into the ground, or they could take their car-toppable tri to the next level and really ignite new sales and upgrades. Up to them, It's a private company, so it's still possible to innovate.

As of today, here's what Hobie's marketing message is:

"The World Is A Water Park, And Since 1950 We've Made The Best Rides.
We've surfed. We've sailed. And to each sport, we've brought flat-out, live-fast, have-fun, adventure."



I may be getting too excited about this, but I just saw on CNN that women are finally being allowed to ride bicycles in Saudi Arabia, so I am encouraged that all things CAN eventually evolve... :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Or, you could just look at something like this:

http://www.motivetrimarans.com/motive15.html

Probably not going to be a huge seller, but appears to be very performance oriented.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:45 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
I meant to say something about Stringy's older style test boat accepting the TI mast but not having enough rudder

@Stringy: I'd be happy to volunteer my new hull if you want to see how the sail works with the larger rudder. It matches the color of the sail too 8) .

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
Or, you could just look at something like this:

http://www.motivetrimarans.com/motive15.html

Probably not going to be a huge seller, but appears to be very performance oriented.
Yes, at $23K without a trailer, I doubt they will.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:41 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
women are finally being allowed to ride bicycles in Saudi Arabia, so I am encouraged that all things CAN eventually evolve... :lol:

Funny you should say that. Women down this way still arn't allowed to sit in the rear seat of a TI.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:08 pm 
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As it would ruin the view,.. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:50 pm 
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Damn the view - we need the sprayshields.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:07 pm 
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:mrgreen: Chris, YOU are funny enuff to be Canadian!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:32 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
You guys crack me up!


I first posted this nearly a year ago and had one response… Nohuhu’s aussie encouragement. I’m not sure of why the sudden amount of interest lately (Slaughters video possibly???) but I thought I had better update progress and get this thread back on track.
I did relocate the aft mainsheet padeye 36cm (14”) back, using a four bolt base padeye. It fits nicely between the up/down rudder lines and has proved reliable in the 6 months it has been on. The TI sail can now be used closehauled OK:
Image

As the hull deck is slightly curved I bent the padeye base around some 2” waterpipe to get the right curve:
Image


The four bolts were fitted with large flat washers internally and double locknuts.
Image
Image

I have also
-lengthened the mainsheet by 2 metres. (I upgraded my TI mainsheet and used the old one, cut down, on the AI)
-upgraded the V-Brace socket screw to the stronger TI version
-replaced the insulation tape, used to build up the tapered mast collar, with a harder plastic film that isn’t deformed by the mast bearings.

Regarding some of the recent discussion

Rudder Type.
This is an ‘11 hull so it does have the stronger transom. I have the new rudder but haven’t upgraded it yet mainly because I use this as my commute twice a week in kayak mode and the Twist-n-Stow is perfect for this. The upgraded rudder is much larger and less transport friendly. I will have to upgrade it though as the last time I tried the TI mast on the AI (Slaughters video) I did have trouble with the rudder kicking up. I didn’t bungee it down and it was definitely overpowered even in those lighter winds that day.

Mast Height
I don’t think this is an issue, especially as I use the haka to level the hull and I furl the sail when the wind gets up. I didn’t do this mod to increase top speed (though I would like to see how it handles stronger winds) but to get better light wind performance. I plan to overlay the TI sail with the AI sail and mark it so that I only have the AI sail area (maybe a bit more) out in stronger winds.

As Chris points out I have struggled to get the time to test this properly. The TI has priority but I do plan on testing this mod out a bit more soonish. I am interested in the performance of the 'furled to AI sail area' and whether there are problems with the wrapped sail.

BTW -Chris I’d be happy for you to try this on your AI sometime. You wouldn’t be able to sail close hauled with the sail fully out but on all other points of sail it should be OK. :)


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