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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:33 pm 
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I would definitely address the mast step and the hull separation as top priorities. It looks like the hull joint (glue) has let go and needs to be re-bonded. That is in a high load area of the hull and I would be concerned that it could lead to hull failure if not fixed. I would also add the new front crossbar and shroud anchor plates.

The mast step would simply be a matter of re-riveting it to the front crossbar, or for added strength, bed it to the cross ar with epoxy before riveting.

The hull bottoms have a lot of wear. I would probably throw down a couple layers of 1-1/2" to 2" fiberglass tape to build them back up.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Location: Naples, FL
I had many of the same issues on my boat when I got it. My bottoms were in better condition though. Mine is a '79 as well so it didn't have any of the anchor plates. I will agree with srm on the mandatory fixes.

The crack running down the lip of your boat, how long is it? I had one that ran 2/3 the length of the hull. I took a 1/16" cutoff wheel that I have mounted in my small air die grinder and very carefully and slowly cleaned out the crack so the epoxy (I used West Systems) would adhere better. After I cleaned it out I took a syringe filled with epoxy and squirted it in the crack filling it up. It was recommended that I try and attach a shop vac to the drain plug to create a suction to pull the glue in but when I tried it it didn't work. I don't think all the old glue had separated yet. To clamp it I used about 15 1" C-clamps because it was hard to get anything else in there so you might need to figure something out.

As far as the anchor plates I would put them in. I had a large crack where the shroud is on one of the hulls and these would have prevented this. I noticed you have some in place at the shrouds. They look different but it looks like they would work. If you need some more I have some used ones. Haven't cleaned them up yet but they're all there with the bolts. I have 3 sets that I got off a parts boat I got a few months back with bad hulls.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:56 pm 
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Okay, so a few clarifications...

Image
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/Michael_Satanek/media/Hobie%2018%20Pictures/Locations_zpsaf615609.jpg.html?sort=3&o=29

the "extreme" delamination in the lip is at the rear crossbar. It is about 8" to a foot long. I noticed that there is a somewhat large soft spot (crunch) just above & aft of it (it's possible they're connected), probably ~14" x 8". I know the drill it & fill it procedure for soft spots, but how do you cap off the lip? The damage here doesn't concern me terribly as long as I fix it, I don't believe there's too much stress there. 'Walker, is this what you're talking about epoxy-ing?

The "hairline" cracks in the lip appear to be in the gelcoat only. I'm not sure if they're due to the normal flexing of the fiberglass, or if the stress is trying to force the hull & deck to separate (yikes). These appear to originate at the forward crossbar and possibly the anchor plates, and easily extend ~5 to 10' along the side.

The front crossbar, however, really worries me. I see deformation in the lip on the starboard, inboard side, and my engineering intuition tells me that deformation is a precursor to catastrophic failure. I also see the early signs of delamination. What can I do to stop or prevent it? Are the anchor plates enough reinforcement?

Image
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/Michael_Satanek/media/Hobie%2018%20Pictures/IMG_1481_edited2_zps2d69ffde.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

Note the visible separation of layers (circled). Also notice the deformation of the lip. It's bowed in the vicinity of the circled delamination. This is much easier to see looking along the outside edge of the hull, but I don't have a picture of it.

Aside from that, the hull repair seems relatively straightforward.
I understand what's involved with adding glass to the bottoms & fairing, but I'm curious how you fill a chip or ding. I've heard suggestions from bondo to resin. Also, when it comes to gel coat, am I better off re-spraying the whole hull than trying to just spray the repair area?

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Location: Buffalo, NY
I made bunks for my H18. Used wood and covered with outdoor carpet. Works great to spread the load out. I remove them when I load and unload the boat from the trailer thus using the rollers on the trailer as intended. I can send you a few pics if you want to get the general idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:41 am 
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Your boat is looking more and more like mine was. I had a large delam spot aft of the rear cross beam as well. I fixed it you described. I used 2 holes in the center spaced out evenly with all the other holes around the spot that is delaminated. I would stress not to break through BOTH layers of fiberglass! You just want to go through the first layer and the foam. I drilled through both by accident in a few spots and made it harder to make sure I got the epoxy evenly through out the spot I was fixing. Now I couldn't say for sure that the crack and the delam are connected but I wouldn't think so. I didn't have a problem with the epoxy coming out of the crack that I had in the lip but if it does that just means that you're getting epoxy through out you bad spot.

As for the "hairline crack in the gel coat" is it in the underside of the lip running parallel with it?

Image

If that's the case I would over worry about it. Mine was also like this. They are older boats that never had the plates so they could have been stressed over the years. I would just fix the delamination, fix the crack like I described and do a little bottom work. It is very easy to start fixing one thing and get deeper and deeper into the project. My hulls aren't perfect but it sails fine.

I would think the plates should be enough for the front cross bars. Granted I don't have the experience a lot of the people here do but I have had no issues and I'm in the surf and have been in some decent waves. On top of that I just got done cutting up some old hull that we shot. I would say 90% of the hulls were delamated but the bond of the deck to the hull was still very strong. I played with them for a bit to see if I could separate them. There is more glue in there than you might think.

For fixing the holes you can get some fillers for the West Systems epoxy that will make is as thick a ketchup if you want. I know this stuff is expensive but it works great, they have some good guides and it's versatile with the additives and fillers. I used a 406 filler for my holes and dings.

Here is my post when I did my boat. Unfortunately I never posted any repair or finished pics. Didn't think of it at the time but wish I had.
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37034

Hope this helps. Let me know if you're interested in the anchor plates.

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'79 Hobie 18


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:19 am 
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FunkyWalker wrote:
I would stress not to break through BOTH layers of fiberglass! You just want to go through the first layer and the foam. I drilled through both by accident in a few spots and made it harder to make sure I got the epoxy evenly through out the spot I was fixing.


A good way to prevent drilling through the entire deck panel is to place a piece of tape about 3/16" from the tip of your drill which will act as a depth guide. Once you punch through the top layer of glass, remove the tape and take the bit out of the drill and just use your finger tips to spin the drill bit through the foam core down to the bottom skin of the panel.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:20 pm 
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Wow FunkyWalker, your thread pretty exactly addresses my concerns. Thanks for the link!

Thanks for all your help and advice, T-bone, FunkyWalker & especially srm... I can tell you really know your stuff with these boats!

Looks like I'll have to start getting a few parts & materials, and I'll take a stab at the repairs in a few weeks when work (hopefully) dies down.

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:23 pm 
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I think you have the wrong bolt in this location. It might explain some of your problems.
Inside crossbar bolts should have Allen Heads with special LOCK washers. This looks like an outside bolt to me.
Image

Have you rerivited your maststep to the crossbar? If not remove both rivits, remove base and examine crossbar for any cracks. (search this forum for more info on crossbar cracks)

I would call this photo top deck / main hull seperation not delamination.
Image
Others may have differing opionions on how to repair this and the gel coat wear through. My recommendation would be to remove the crossbars since your tamp is already off and its only 4 more bolts. Roll the hulls upside down that way your resin or epoxy is running into the crevice not out. I would blow out the crevice with compressed air if available. Make sure the area your working on is dry, spread slightly with a screw driver and pour or inject in your resin or epoxy then clamp.

While upside dow its easier to do your bottom gel coat repairs also. See this forum or youtude for more gel coat tips. I generaly brush gel coat for bottom repairs or to fill chips. I then fair by wet sanding.

Replace the Anchor pins!!! if you don't know how old they are. Do this first then worry about the rest of the standing rigging when funds are available.(search this forum for more on this topic)

Good luck on your project all these items can be fixed.

Corkguy H18aholic

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:23 am 
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Cork Guy wrote:
I think you have the wrong bolt in this location. It might explain some of your problems.


He definitely has the wrong bolt there. It needs to be a socket head bolt, not a hex head bolt. I don't see how he would fully tighten the hex head bolt (unless perhaps he has some spacers under the head). Anyway, I would definitely change these out for the correct bolts.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:58 am 
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Fleet 119 sails out of Evangola State Park and has ten 18's in the club if you need to reference what others have done for repairs or tuning.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:16 pm 
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Not saying it's right, but I've seen at least one or two 18s from the 70s with the old style shroud brackets and bolts with spacers used rather than the hex head. There was some weird older hardware. Others would probably be better at clarifying this but... there is a note on some of my crossbars that talks about "new style" deeper theaded bolts and holes. In the case of the old and new boat crossbars and bolt configurations, there are some differences?

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Fleet 259, Central Coast CA
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H18 ('85)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Oh wow, you're right Cork Guy, I hadn't really paid much attention to the way the crossbars were bolted down... not sure how I'm going to get that out of there, I'll have to see what I can do with it. I figured I'll be removing those to put in the new anchor plates anyways. Ditto on checking for cracks in the crossbar, I'm certainly planing to check that out when I go to add the new mast step.

I will definitely be replacing the anchor pins at the same time.

I'm surprised you recommend brushing on the gel coat, everything that I've seen and read says that gel coat really needs to be sprayed on; it dries too fast and goes on to unevenly to brush or roll it. Either way, I'm not sure how you'd fair it into the existing gel coat without re-spraying the entire hull... but I figured I'd cross that bridge when I get to it.

wattfarm - I've seen you guys sail up to Mickey Rats occasionally, I just haven't gotten the Hobie out there yet. I'd sure love to stop by at some point to meet some other cat sailors. I've been a bit curious about what kind of casual racing you guys do, though I know my boat is too heavy to be competitive AND I've got an all aluminum mast.

As always, thanks for the help and advice!

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:13 pm 
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SabresfortheCup wrote:
I'm surprised you recommend brushing on the gel coat, everything that I've seen and read says that gel coat really needs to be sprayed on; it dries too fast and goes on to unevenly to brush or roll it. Either way, I'm not sure how you'd fair it into the existing gel coat without re-spraying the entire hull... but I figured I'd cross that bridge when I get to it.


Gel coat is going to kick off or have short or long dry time depending on how much catalist you mix in and ambient tempature.

There's more than one way to do a repair. I brush and spray depending on what I'm trying to fix. Filling scratches or holes I lay in with a cheap brush. Covering wear through I might spray or brush depending on how big an area I'm working on. I would sudjest watching some youtubes on the subject, then buying a pint of gel and experimenting.

My 2cents.

Corkguy

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:54 am 
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srm wrote:
Cork Guy wrote:
I think you have the wrong bolt in this location. It might explain some of your problems.


He definitely has the wrong bolt there. It needs to be a socket head bolt, not a hex head bolt. I don't see how he would fully tighten the hex head bolt (unless perhaps he has some spacers under the head). Anyway, I would definitely change these out for the correct bolts.

sm


There are actually spacers on all of the crossbar bolts, and the outboard bolts are longer than those listed in the parts manual. The parts list doesn't show spacers at any of these locations. Does anyone know if this was standard on the early Hobie 18's? Without the spacers, there is no way to tighten the nuts on the bolts. Am I missing something here?

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:35 am 
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I had an old boat with the same setup and the same spacers... either an alternate setup, or some guys hack job. However mine seemed pretty factory. There were two different bolt lengths as far as the threads going into the crossbar. You can use the spacer/bolt setup, or replace it with some socket head allen key bolts, but if you do that, be sure that you have the same amount of threads going into the crossbar. I forget exactly how they were different, but they weren't interchangeable both ways.

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Fleet 259, Central Coast CA
H18 ('81)
H18 ('85)
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