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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:27 am 
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Location: High Point, NC
I don't mind getting wet, I expect to get wet. These are kayaks and ride low to the water. But out of the 5 Hobie's I own, the Adventure is the only one where the seat bottom is below the waterline.

The Revo is already drier, the seat bottom is above the water line so you're not sitting in a puddle of water (mine has scuppers in the seat and any water than comes in from over the top just runs back out), the tankwell is also above the water line. The front hatch is larger than the hatch on the Adventure.

I may be wrong, but seem to recall that the Adventure was designed and offered prior to the Revolution, which leads me to believe that some of the Adventure's shortcomings were addressed and corrected when the Revolution was designed about a year or so later.

Notice I didn't say to use the Revolution as is for an Island replacement. I said that if it was stretched a couple feet it would make a better base vehicle for a new Island type boat than the current Adventure. Obviously, it would also have the large Island type rudder and everything else the current Islands have.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:10 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Tom Kirkman:
I agree that the Adventure might be in need of a freshening up of the old (2006) design. Hobie has done this on nearly every other model with the best examples being the new Oasis and the new Revolution. The new freshened updated designs on these newer models are way better than the original designs.
The TI is a more recent design (2010) so it has many of the nice features that the re-designed models have (dryer seats, better hatches, better handles, etc) are on the TI. It also appears that Hobie is aware of this and is continuously improving and tweaking on the Adventure, some examples are: new rudder system, same AKA bar and sail system as the TI, new handles ( I think), they keep tweaking on the hatch seal, as I believe the latest models have a very similar seal to the latest TI design (which works very well). This is just my opinion but it seems to me that sculpting an inch or so out of the seat bottom in the mold (which would be steel safe in the mold) would improve the dryness on everyones seat bottom without compromising the stability in Kayak mode (whats an inch among friends LOL).
A change like this would not add any weight to the boat, and everything should still fit. At least that seems to be what they have done on all the other models.
Then again I don't want to mention too much (too late) in the hope they are secretly working on new super fast AI and TI designs at the Hobie Skunk works and getting ready to release them to us.
Bob


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:42 am 
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You've pretty much echoed my feelings, although to be fair, I don't want to insinuate that the AI is a bad boat nor problematic. I like mine quite a bit and highly recommend it to others. But in the spirit of this thread, I think there are some minor tweaks that could be performed that would bring it more in line with the Revolution or the Tandem Island all the while still retaining all the good qualities all of these kayaks are known for.

We all want to go faster, of course, and a large sail plan would certainly be very nice in light air. The trouble creeps in when the wind really picks up, and now problems can develop on the opposite end, with certain components not up to the task of handling the increased forces.

But I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water - the Island series are great boats. I'd just like to get my butt out of the little tub of water present in the AI seat.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:38 am 
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Location: South Florida
Getting your bottom out of water is not difficult. There are a number of sophisticated seats described on this forum. I've begun to think of it a bit. My first solution was simply to fasten an extra 1" stiff, closed-cell foam pad to the seat--essentially equivalent to the Hobie I-comfort seat. I used it for several years, but it is still pretty low. Most recently, I purchased a couple cushions (Campmor: http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___77726)

Image

Here is the seat in place on my wife's AI. It definitely keeps your bottom out of the water.

Image

And, it can be used to make a pretty comfortable seat on a 3-legged camp chair.

Image

For a simple $15 solution to avoiding sitting in water on the AI, this works.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Tom Kirkman wrote:
the Island series are great boats. I'd just like to get my butt out of the little tub of water present in the AI seat.
"Hakas", Tom. They make sure your Okole is high, dry and air cooled!

Now I just watch the cockpit fill, like a bathtub, and smile. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:19 pm 
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I have been sitting on the gunwale more often. But we often fold the Akas in while landing fish so the Hakas would have to be made to pivot on their bases. I'm not ruling it out, just not headed that way at the moment. Too many irons in the fire.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Folding Hakas are a great idea.

Since, I only land fish .000007% of my time on the water, I just jump on the Hakas and fight them there. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:27 am 
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Location: Aussie living in San Diego, CA
Someone mention folding hakas? :P
I think the wet butt experience on the AI (and TI) needs to change - its not so much that you get wet - that's going to happen anyway - its the sitting in the puddle of water that won't drain away. Unscrewing the plugs doesn't fix it because water then comes up from below when sailing. By design sailing kayaks are going to take water over the top so the design also needs to take that water out and keep water from coming in from below. Scupper valves have been around a long time and Hobie should be designing them into the seat areas.
I followed the DIY trend and installed the valves from a syphon pump squeeze bulb directly into the existing screw in scupper plugs by drilling out the center. The drain holes look too small but they do work. They are not fast, taking about 30 seconds to drain the seat area but it drains ok. No doubt that would not be fast enough for NOHUHU sailing conditions and a larger drain would be required in production.
So, Hobie, if you are listening - this is a pretty easy fix for your engineers to do and score big points with the island crowd - Ocean Kayaks fixed it for their users - how about it Hobie?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:18 am 
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The TI and Revolution both have seat bottoms that are above the water line. The problem lies mostly with the AI because the seat bottom, even without anyone being in the kayak, is already below the waterline. This allows water to come up into the seat bottom from the scuppers. A seat bucket only an inch or so higher would rectify this.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:18 pm 
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25mm (1") mightn't sound like much but it would change the handling of the Adventure hull in kayak mode. Sitting below the waterline helps with stability and I would be against raising the seat area as it would lessen the versatility of this great boat. Of course a higher centre of gravity is of little concern on the AI.
I'd like to see a removable solution that gives you a choice. Up high and dry or down low and stable. A properly molded and fitted false floor or an option of a better seat such as the Vantage as used on the PA which is easily swapped out.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Excellent suggestion, Stringy. It should make everyone happy.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Yes it would change it, but that's why I suggested modeling the next generation on the Revolution hull. It's a little wider, just a couple inches, and a little taller, again, just a couple inches. And it's a heck of a nice handling, fast moving, boat.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:21 pm 
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In my opinion, the Adventure is already too wide. It is probably about right for the first AI version, but if you want a fast AI, a more narrow hull would help. I don't see any virtue in having a wider hull.

Of course, Hobie is going to make these decisions based on their market audience (but I hope it is fast.) Why, why would you build an upgraded AI and not increase its speed?

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:04 am 
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Yes, it would be great to see pictures of the seat, Mickey, and others if you have modified/added any type of seats?

Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:12 am 
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If you do a search, there are heaps of different solutions for adding different seats to AIs & TIs.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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