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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:25 pm 
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I fish primarily on Lk Michigan, often trolling pretty deep for salmon & lake trout. I have had good luck with torpedo divers, but wanted to respool and try using leadcore line this season. Most of the charter captains around me will have different reels spooled for differfent depths, putting 3 colors of lead on one, 4 on the next, 5 on the next, etc, with fluorocarbon leader at one end of the lead and braid at the other. This permits them to get to a particular depth with their lures several hundred feet behind the boat - a good thing for these boat-shy species. I am not blessed by a closetful of dedicated reels, so I was thinking of putting a full core (10 colors) of lead on one reel and letting out as much as I need to get to the desired depth on any given day. Since my lures will consequently be much closer to the yak than how the pros rig, especially if I am only targeting fish 30 ft down on a particular day, I am wondering if I am going to regret this strategy. My reasoning is that the PA is a much quieter boat so I don't have to have my lure so far back.
Anybody else using lead core line this way from a PA? How did you rig yours?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:08 pm 
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ive been fishing lead core for about 3 years from my PA ...I suggest using the 20 color spool of leadcore from cabelas on a penn 209 reel, its a small reel thats not too expensive that can hold about 15 colors....if you want more length put 100ft flourocarbon leader... no you are not gonna regret this strategy, why you wouldnt want a full spool of leadcore doesnt make sense to me, that way you are always prepared for whatever with one reel.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:27 am 
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Thanks Jude. I was mostly concerned about how this would limit my shallow game plan. Just putting 1-3 colors out for near-shore brown trout in the spring, for instance, could be problematic. But I can see that the long leader is the key in that situation, and will rig that way. Just curious: where do you fish 15 colors, and how deep are you when trolling at a comfortable PA pedaling speed?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:11 am 
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Jude wrote:
ive been fishing lead core for about 3 years from my PA ...I suggest using the 20 color spool of leadcore from cabelas on a penn 209 reel, its a small reel thats not too expensive that can hold about 15 colors....if you want more length put 100ft flourocarbon leader... no you are not gonna regret this strategy, why you wouldnt want a full spool of leadcore doesnt make sense to me, that way you are always prepared for whatever with one reel.


The charters run the lead core like a very elongated in line sinker that can easily be wound on the reel. They want the lures way way back. So the use of a long leader for stealth ahead of the lure, a known weight and drag ratio for the "sinker" and then a very fine line to not float the rig under tension gives them precise control of depth. Many of them will help each other out by running one boat behind the other to set up the depths. The lead boat lets out their lines and the trailing boat reads the depth of the lures on their sonar. Depth control is the key. And having wound lead core onto 209s I can tell you it leaves no room for additional line as backing. Get a big fish on and you don't have sufficient line available to allow a good first run to wear the fish down. Pull too hard and you pull the hook.

When we trolled for walleye in Lake Erie, I had charts for Dipsey divers that I made up myself. We could control the depth of our lures to one foot. And many times one foot up or down made the difference between fish in the boat or not.

When we went to Frankfort with my son and his family we went out on a charter for Salmon and Lake trout. Those guys had it down to a science including exactly when to switch spot and reset all the lines to target Salmon in the early morning hours and then switch to Lake Trout as the day progressed. Since we had two youngsters along we opted for a half day trip. That short trip yielded 67 pounds of fish filet.

Here is a suggestion to emulate the charter fishing method. Make up fluoro and lead core sections that are as many colors as you want to achieve a certain depth behind the Yak when the remainder of the line is braid. Put a loop in the end of the braid on the reels. Wind the made up leader/lead core on leader spools starting with the fluoro and ending with a loop at the end of the lead core. Be sure the loop on the reel is very large so it can slip over the leader spool. Then just wind the desired number of color premade onto the reel and fish it. If you need to change depths, wind the premade back onto the leader spool and put on another. Another option would be to make loops on the end of each color and then use the leader spool as a transfer spool to add or subtract separate spools of one color each. Then get a buddy and do as the charters do. Measure the depth of your lures. You will have to control speed to a fair thee well to make it work.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Im fishing Tahoe, I used to run the next penn size up(309?) but its too big...flouro leader and 10-15 colors u can conquer just about any brown or lake trout or koke unless its 20+ lbs...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:23 am 
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AllElectric - Thanks for the suggestion. I get the concept, but not the details of your proposal. I don't understand the large loop in the end of the braid that must fit over the leader spool??? Sounds like you are just suggesting using pre-spooled lengths of lead core with fluoro attached. Why not just put a snap swivel on the end of the braid, and a loop in the rod-end of the lead core, and clip on the line from the pre-tied 5-color (or whatever you need) spool. No problem reeling this onto the main reel, but then, how do you get it back on the leader spool when you want to change depths? If I am trolling with 8 colors, and want to come up to 7 colors, wouldn't this involve reeling everything in, then hand-winding 100 yards of fluoro followed by 80 yards of lead core back onto the leader spool before switching over to the pre-tied 8-color spool? All that hand-winding would be a serious impediment to fine-tuning the depth. I suppose I could bring an electric drill with me to speed things up, but then life is getting very complicated.

I am looking at the Suffix 832 Advanced Lead Core, which is narrower than the typical stuff, and may still permit some backing on a large caliber reel if spooled with 15 colors. Unfortunatley there is no way to know how much lead vs leader to use without having an identical reel available for back-spooling.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:42 am 
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Yes it would require lots of hand spooling.

A snap system could work to add a color if you can wind it through the guides when the rod is bent over double with a big fish.

To the Tahoe man. Salmon and trout are two completely different animals on the end of a line.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:53 am 
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I gave up on lead core and big fish because after a few seasons the lead breaks down the cover squeezes down and you wind up with lumps and bumps of all sorts.

This is what I use for siinkers and long long leaders or just mono line itself. You put the sinker on at any length ahead of the lure or stopper swivel. When a fish hits the line comes out of the forward pinching loop and then the sinker moves along the line until it comes to the stopper. They are called Peetz sinkers.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Location: Michigan
Jim,

I went super simple and simply love it!

45 pound test braided copper trolling wire spooled onto an old fashioned hand reel.
2 tin pie plates riveted back to back, with a 3/4 inch stainless steel bolt for an axle that is held in one hand and a small SS allen head bolt in one pie plate edge for a crank handle... no rod.

To judge, how much line is let out I simply marked every 100 feet of copper wire with some blood knotted high vis dacron braid.

Add about 15 to 30 feet of your favorite mono for a leader and you are ready to fish.

I call it direct drive... you feel every muscle twitch and head shakes feel unreal.
I still haven't figured out all of the small unusual sensations, but I'm certainly up for spending more time on the water to figure it all out!!!

I can email some pics.

I'm also up for making one for you, we're not far from each other so let me know if you are interested.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Hey Chuck! That "Direct Drive" sounds like a handful. Kind of like re-inventing the wheel - leterally. I have seen some old-school Lk Trout rigs like that from my grandfathers day. Not sure I am ready for anything like that just yet though. I went in the opposite direction in fact - My 9-1/2' salmon rod leaves me hands free while waiting for a strike, and provides lots of leverage for keeping presure on a big Chinook when the game begins. Just need to figure out how to rig this with lead core and still be able to hit the shallows occasionally. I think that the very long leader will be key.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:17 am 
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CBull wrote:
Jim,

I went super simple and simply love it!

45 pound test braided copper trolling wire spooled onto an old fashioned hand reel.
2 tin pie plates riveted back to back, with a 3/4 inch stainless steel bolt for an axle that is held in one hand and a small SS allen head bolt in one pie plate edge for a crank handle... no rod.

To judge, how much line is let out I simply marked every 100 feet of copper wire with some blood knotted high vis dacron braid.

Add about 15 to 30 feet of your favorite mono for a leader and you are ready to fish.


I call it direct drive... you feel every muscle twitch and head shakes feel unreal.
I still haven't figured out all of the small unusual sensations, but I'm certainly up for spending more time on the water to figure it all out!!!

I can email some pics.

I'm also up for making one for you, we're not far from each other so let me know if you are interested.



We used solid copper wire for walleye trolling in the St. Clair River way back when. The "reel" was an old Victrola motor with a spool mounted to carry the copper wire. As you pulled out line it wound the spring tighter so when you started to bring line back in it automatically wound onto the spool. Terminal tackle went like this. A very elongated 8 ounce weight with a long brass rod molded through the center. Eye bent on one end the other with a tag about three inches long. That was the bottom bumper as we wanted to be right on the bottom. Then about two feet up on the copper a swivel was attached to which a 20 foot mono leader was attached. The other end of the leader held a McGinty, an aluminum headed lure with a small propellor like attachment and a woven wire covered with masking tape and painted which led to a treble hook about three inches back. That hook was gobbed with night crawlers. The other lure was a pencil lure, about a 3/8 diameter wooden dowel with an angle cut at the front. A wire was run through a center drilled hole with a loop at the front and a treble at the back. Pencil plugs ranged in length from about 4 to 6 inches. That treble was gobbed with night crawlers too. Up the copper about another three feet was another swivel to which was attached a 30 foot mono leader with a McGinty or Pencil plug on the end. The rig was fed out from a small boat with a small outboard for trolling until you could feel the sinker bumping bottom. You kept your hand over the side and constantly kept pulling up and letting down to keep the lead right on the bottom but not dragging bottom. That is where the Victrola motor really shone. The line was always in tension as solid copper will kink faster than a cheap hose in cold weather. Dad had a four cylinder five horsepower Evinrude. What a great little motor that was.

The crazy part of all this was that we usually started fishing around 10 pm so it would be nice and dark. Then we would troll to 3 or 4 am. The river is a shipping route and the channel was the best trolling ground. All of a sudden a huge bright light would light you up and a monster horn would blow as a large ship was almost on you. Had to get away fast because if you were too close when the stern passed it would suck you right into the props. The bow waves were a real hoot because if you got on one and then turned off to get away it was like surfing off to the side.

I have only been fishing for 67 years. So now I know about 1% of what one could learn about fishing. I was in Hog Heaven when dad bought me my first outfit. A Shakespeare Underspin reel on a fiberglass rod spooled with mono. I was 4 years old. I had been using an old Pflueger casting reel of his on a steel rod with linen line before that.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:23 pm 
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I have been fishing leadcore for 40 years in saltwater and for the last four years from my kayak. I see in the post that some are complaining that lead breaks down over time with talk of bumps in the line and such. Two things to remember the heavier the leadcore the deeper it will go and also the slower you go the deeper it will sink. Making tight turns over the prime spots slow the line effectively dropping the terminal tackle into tricky holes etc. I fish 50lb leadcore and have used 60 lb. I always load ten colors or 100 yds on my salt reels TLD25s etc. If you rinse the line often it will not rot. The biggest enemy of leadcore is twist in the line, to avoid this I attach the leader to the leadcore with a beadchain swivel. This item eliminates any twist from forming and will fit thru any rod eye without hangup. Just my two cents, hope it helps.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:43 pm 
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So Lameduck, how long a leader do you typically use? Are you able to wind the bead chain right onto the reel, or just up to the levelwind guide?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:29 pm 
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I use a 30 foot leader for stripers and yes the beadchain goes right onto the reel no problems. I must admit that it goes out much smoother if you use a roller quide for a tiptop. I use black beadchain swivels but they are available in stainless and range from 10lb to 80lb here locally in New England.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:28 am 
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Thanks for all the advice, guys. I am all spooled up with lead now and just waiting for the last of the ice to break up so I can do a shake-down cruise. I spooled onto an Okuma CLR-450D linecounter. ended up with about 150' of 20# mono for backing, then 20 colors (600') of 18# Suffix Advanced Lead Core, then squeezed in another 100' of 20# Berkley Vanish fluorocarbon leader. That's a full (and heavy!) reel. I was unable to find a beadchain swivel like Lameduck uses that would fit through my levelwind guide, so I'll have to use a snap swivel at the lure. According to what I have read, this setup should probably get me down 140' which covers 90% of the areas I fish on a regular basis. It leaves relatively little backing for tiring a feisty deep laker though. Hopefully next weekend I can get out to the deep water and see for sure.


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