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 Post subject: Pretty Darned Stupid!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:33 pm 
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I'm thinking this is probably the stupidest mistake anyone on this forum has confessed to.
My furling drum came loose at the end of last summer. Two days ago I picked up some epoxy, removed as much old epoxy as I could from the mast and drum. Then cleaned everything off with acetone. I mixed up the epoxy, applied it to the mast and slid the furling drum back on making sure it lined up with the bottom line on the mast. I placed it in a room and kept it in the 70's for 24 hrs, and cleaned off the drips then let it sit for another 24 hrs. Today I brought it out and was going to re-tie the short line which then hooks on to the sail, but horrifyingly realized - yes, you guessed it- I had glued the drum on upside down :o Am I in deep dudu or is there a way to get my drum off without having to buy a new mast? I am still in shock and am so embarrassed for making this very stupid mistake. :oops: I'm keeping my fingers crossed one of you has a trick up your sleeve to loosen epoxy.
Thank you
Wanda

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:53 pm 
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I feel your pain Wanda! :(
You shouldn't need a new mast but you will need a new furling drum.
Part#79512001 Furler Drum AI
You may be able to soften the epoxy using a heat gun. This from the West Systems site:
" Use a heat gun to soften the epoxy (200°F). Heat a small area and use a paint or cabinet scraper to remove the bulk of the coating. Sand the surface to remove the remaining material. Provide ventilation when heating epoxy"
This may destroy the furler drum and could damage the mast..I'm not sure???
You are probably going to have to remove the drum by cutting through it carefully from the mast.
I'd be using a dremel, small diegrinder or similar with a fine cutting disc and make a number of vertical full length cuts in the drum down to just above the mast. Then using a small flat bladed screwdriver and hammer, carefully remove a section of drum at a time. Be very careful not to cut too deep and hit the mast, though if you do, I wouldn't worry too much as that area will be covered in epoxy anyway.
Good luck! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:28 am 
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The resin holding the fibers in the mast together will soften at around 275F so using a heat gun can be a risky proposition. It does not act like hot melt glue - once softened, it remains soft.

Try immersing the end of the mast and drum in a pot of boiling water. This generally keeps the temperature low enough to prevent damage to the carbon prepeg but is often high enough to break the epoxy bond. Sometimes.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:14 am 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
The resin holding the fibers in the mast together will soften at around 275F so using a heat gun can be a risky proposition. It does not act like hot melt glue - once softened, it remains soft.

Try immersing the end of the mast and drum in a pot of boiling water. This generally keeps the temperature low enough to prevent damage to the carbon prepeg but is often high enough to break the epoxy bond. Sometimes.


That's good to know. I was wondering just what it was that held the mast together.

So Wanda, I'd be trying the boiling water imersion first. Maybe a couple of good blows to the drum may dislodge it?
Let's hope so!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:52 pm 
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I would find the careful use of a heat gun or better yet, low pressure steam much more practical and accurate than repeatedly trying to dip a section of 9' mast in a 2' bath of actively boiling water. Though it could be done outdoors, it also could be awkward and dangerous.

If it's ABS, the furling ring may have a lower melting point (about 220º f) than the mast (if 275º as Tom suggests) or even the epoxy. So it may be the plastic that starts to break the bond first. This all makes for an interesting experiment. :wink:

It's easy enough to mix up another batch of your epoxy and test it first to see how much heat is actually needed, or if it helps at all. You could glue some ABS parts together if you want. Use a simple oven thermometer to practice achieving the right heat prior to starting.

You MIGHT be able to heat the entire ring enough to knock it loose with a soft mallet, but I think the real trick is going be to first score the ring into sections with cutting tools like blades and dremel (mutli tools also work great for this) and then use steam or dry heat on each section. Don't cut all the way through to the mast!

Clamping the edge of the ring in a vise would allow you to gently pry pieces off, as the bond softens. (I don't like the idea of hitting a carbon mast with anything harder than my head).

Have someone assist you, always work with gloves and safety glasses, stay hydrated, blah, blah, blah,..

And document the whole thing. We'll go make some popcorn. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Thank you Stringy, Tom, and Nohuhu for your great ideas.

Today I filled my old turkey frying pot with water and let it boil. I put the furling drum/end of mast into it and left it in for 6 min. Then Jerry used a piece of wood and hit it many times as I turned the mast. Nothing happened. I re-submerged it into the boiling water for another 10 min. Jerry really whacked it this time from both ends of the drum and it didn't budge. So this week I'll work at cutting the drum down close to the mast with a fine toothed hack saw. I'll find out if AA Rentals has small cutting tools for rent so I can get down closer to the mast without cutting into it.

Thank you all again, for your advice.
Wanda

Nohuhu, I'll document this mistake I've made, so you will all know if it works or not, but, I'm sorry, you won't get any photos. I've always read here in the AI/TI forum, "If there is no picture, it didn't happen." :? I wish :? :oops:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Small reward, but take some consolation in the knowledge that you obvious did a good job adhering the drum to the mast.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:02 am 
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Tom Kirkman wrote:
Small reward, but take some consolation in the knowledge that you obvious did a good job adhering the drum to the mast.

What Tom said :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:59 am 
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Sorry to hear about your dilemma Wanda. I suppose thats the difference between men and women. A man could have also made the mistake.....but he never would have admitted it. :lol:

While we are all on the topic of furling drums, could someone please do me a favour ? NOHUHU spotted from my video that my furling drum was fouling the top plate of the mast reciever. I'm trying to now work out where the problem is. The furling drum looks so well bonded that you would swear that it was bonded by Wander. :roll: But how do I know if it was bonded in the right spot from the factory.

Could someone please run a ruler over their mast end using the same datum point as the one I have used in the photo ?

From here......

Image

............to here.........

Image

Thanks in advance.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:00 am 
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Slaughter,
Just checked and I get 250mm to the bevel whereas yours is 245mm. I did have the slipping drum so it has been reglued. I doubt that 5mm is an issue.
What Nohuhu was refering to was a V-Brace adjustment to raise the furling drum so that it clears the mast bearing plate.
I recently did this on my '11 hull which has 09 x-bars. It was easily done but I had to go the opposite way to what I first thought and now I can't remember which way it was. :roll:
I think I ended up winding the V-brace in which pulled up the bottom of the hull and raised the mast.
Yours is the V2 aka/x-bar I think? There has been some discussion on just how to adjust this and I don't think a consensus was reached? The V2 x-bars have extra fixings which attach the bar to the mast cup.
Hobie need to chime in here on the correct procedure for V2 V-Brace adjustment.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:26 am 
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Thanks Stringy. I just did a a full measurement check and there is +10mm that needs to be adjusted somewhere. ie: top of the mast locating shaft ( down in the hole ) to the top of the bearing plate = 240mm, and the dimension on the photo minus the hole depth in the base of the mast = 230mm. So there is a fouling of at least 10mm.

I take it that the mast is suppose to be supported on the shaft end in bottom of the mast hole ? Is that right ?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:36 am 
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The mast is supposed to be supported on the plate at the bottom of the mast tube as far as I know. The pin just keeps it centered. I don't think the pin is supposed to take the mast weight?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:51 pm 
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You would have to remove the pinned baseplate and check it on the mast to know for sure, but the idea is correct- the mast base should float on the pinned baseplate rather than the top of the roller bearing plate. Much easier furling this way and less chance of your furling ring slipping or your bars developing cracks.

If your hull bottom shows signs of bulging at the v-brace and your mast rubs the bearing plate, it's a classic sign of an overextended v- brace.

A few twists of the turnbuckles to compress them will cure things. This raises the mast cup, and the mast with it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Thanks fellas. I'll get onto it tonight and take a few before and after photos.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Make sure you read this thread, esp pages 3,4,5 before adjusting anything.
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=44081&hilit=V+brace&start=45

Hobie never did respond with an official adjustment procedure for the V2 x-bar v-brace. :?


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